Lower bandsaw wheel bearing lack of resistance

[paulrussell]

I have an older bandsaw and while there isn't any play that I can determine, the lower bearing spins suspiciously easily.
I compared this today with a newer bandsaw, and the newer one has a slight drag to the bearing. The newer bearing has a smooth exterior, and the older has a circular "seam" or depression midway between the ends
My assumption is that the older bearung is reaching its end, unless there is something I'm not aware of.
Am I correct in my assumption?

[DLB]

I have an older bandsaw and while there isn't any play that I can determine, the lower bearing spins suspiciously easily.
I compared this today with a newer bandsaw, and the newer one has a slight drag to the bearing. The newer bearing has a smooth exterior, and the older has a circular "seam" or depression midway between the ends
My assumption is that the older bearung is reaching its end, unless there is something I'm not aware of.
Am I correct in my assumption?

I think your assumption is correct. A bearing that spins too freely is typically caused by the loss of grease. If it is a sealed bearing, which I think this is, that would mean the seal has failed. Personally, I don't replace bearings for this until there is some other failure symptom unless I already have the bearing out.

- David

[paulrussell]

[

I think your assumption is correct. A bearing that spins too freely is typically caused by the loss of grease. If it is a sealed bearing, which I think this is, that would mean the seal has failed. Personally, I don't replace bearings for this until there is some other failure symptom unless I already have the bearing out.
- David
[/quote]

Given that the water pump bearing is supposed to be near impossible to replace at home, I'm taking your advice!
-- Paul

[edma194]

Given that the water pump bearing is supposed to be near impossible to replace at home, I'm taking your advice!
-- Paul

Is it difficult? If it has the water pump bearing it should be held in place with a retaining clip, #31 in the diagram. I haven't replaced a lower wheel on the bandsaw but it's the same design on the strip sander that I did replace the water pump bearing on. They don't have the bearing assembly available on the current model but you can get a replacement water pump bearing and grind a flat on the shaft.

[paulrussell]

Is it difficult? If it has the water pump bearing it should be held in place with a retaining clip, #31 in the diagram. I haven't replaced a lower wheel on the bandsaw but it's the same design on the strip sander that I did replace the water pump bearing on. They don't have the bearing assembly available on the current model but you can get a replacement water pump bearing and grind a flat on the shaft.

I'd love to be wrong, but posts by Nick Engler and Bill Mayo say it borders on the impossible to change the bearing:

This is clip #31

20240828_161209 (1).jpg (95.95 KiB) Viewed 1988 times

And this is the wheel, shaft, and bearing.

20240828_161223.jpg (240.38 KiB) Viewed 1988 times

Bill Mayo wrote viewtopic.php?p=62494#p62494
"The intergrated bearing and shaft for the bandsaw is an water pump part that I have the part number but unable to find anyone to sell them to me. I have modified the idler shaft and used it as a replacement for the bandsaw bearing and shaft. The location of the lower bandsaw wheel is critical in relation to the bearing when pressing the lower wheel onto the shaft. Unless you have the necessary equipment to do this task, I recommend buying the Lower Wheel Assembly from Shopsmith (509032)."

Nick Engler wrote viewtopic.php?p=1268#p1268
"The lower bearing is a different size and a different design. Just to be able to better answer you, I found one in the discard bin where we repair and refurbish machines. I tried to press the bearing off the shaft with a 20-ton press to see how it was made -- and no joy! Would not budge. The factory folks tell me this bearing is very similar to one used in high-end submersible pumps and that the shaft and the bearing are an integral unit. The shaft, in fact, is machined and polished to serve as a race for the bearings and you cannot replace one without replacing the other. Taking them apart -- say with a 100-ton press -- destroys both the bearing and the shaft. Cool, huh? Soon as I can borrow a 100-ton press and a bomb suit, I'll let you know what happens."

I do hope I'm wrong.
-- Paul

[edma194]

I'd love to be wrong, but posts by Nick Engler and Bill Mayo say it borders on the impossible to change the bearing:

I see what you mean now. Water pump bearings can't be disassembled. The shaft is the inner race. You would have to replace the entire water pump bearing. Bill also mentions problems mounting the wheel on a new water pump bearing shaft. I don't know what makes that difficult in this case as long as the shaft is aligned with wheel when it is pressed in. Possibly when the original bearing is pressed in the aluminum wheel deforms around to match the shaft and a new bearing can't be properly aligned. The bandsaw design should be more tolerant of slight misalignment than traditional bandsaws though.

How old are your different saws? There's a bandsaw serial number lookup somewhere here on the forum.

A post from Russ Chapman maybe, indicated newer bandsaws don't use the water pump bearing. The lack of resistance you feel maybe a difference in bearing types. The 'seam' you mention may just be a groove for a retaining screw, or it maybe it's a double row bearing. I'll check out the water pump bearings feel on on saws I have and let you know what I find.

[DLB]

A post from Russ Chapman maybe, indicated newer bandsaws don't use the water pump bearing.

The photo of the overhaul kit (https://www.shopsmith.com/product-page/ ... erhaul-kit) suggests that the lower BS wheel bearing has been changed similar to the new (-ish) style Idler bearings. Two bearing assemblies in lieu of the water pump bearing. But if it is like the Idler then the bearings are most likely shielded rather than sealed. There wasn't a picture of the lower wheel assembly by itself, but the current price tag for it is $137.

- David

[chapmanruss]

Since I have been mentioned in this thread, I thought I would chime in here. David referenced the Overhaul Kit and that it shows two separate Bearings on the shaft. That looks like it is true based on the picture from the Shopsmith online catalog below.

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from the Shopsmith online catalog

Bandsaw Overhaul Kit 556084.jpg (83.07 KiB) Viewed 1849 times

.
As to when that change occurred, I do not know. I own or have owned 11 Bandsaws ranging from 1956 to 2006. The only one I have not removed the Lower Wheel Assembly from is the 2006. It was in such good shape when I bought it, I didn't have to do any restoration on it. Besides it is not my primary Bandsaw. I'll have to get it out of its box and check it out to see what is has for a bearing. As far as I remember all 10 of the other Bandsaws have the water pump type bearing and the newest ones of the other 10 are two from 1998. Again, I'll have to do some looking at those I still have.

As for the 'seam" mentioned it has no purpose in the Bandsaw. The Main Frame Casting itself hasn't changed since the Bandsaws introduction in 1955 and none of my Bandsaws have had a set screw to retain the Lower Wheel Bearing. The retainer for the Lower Wheel Assembly has always been the clip and bolt paulrussell shows in his post.

Below is the Lower Wheel Assembly we have seen in the past.

_

Lower Wheel Assembly with Bearing.jpg (68.16 KiB) Viewed 1849 times

.
Looking for Bandsaw pictures today I see I have done a really bad job of cataloging parts during restorations so far. I'll have to do better on the Greenie, 2 Goldies and the 1960's gray Magna American Bandsaws I have waiting to be restored.

[chapmanruss]

I removed the Lower Wheel Assembly from the 2006 and a 1998 this afternoon. In both cases I believe they are the original Lower Wheel Assemblies and both have a water pump type bearing. The only differences are no grooves in the 1998 Lower Wheel Bearing outer casing and only two lighter grooves in the 2006 Lower Wheel Bearing outer casing.

[DLB]

Jumping back to the original question for a moment. You should consider spinning the bearing outer race on the shaft with the whole thing removed from the bandsaw. This might be a more reliable indicator of a free spinning bearing. I checked mine both ways, and the wheel gives it a lot of inertia that might make it appear to spin too freely. Typically these water pump style bearings exhibit long life.

I did this on a 2003 BS that I never use because it lacks the tool-free blade access capability of its predecessors. I'm thinking this can be easily corrected.

- David