My Model 10-ER Journey

[GetterDone]

Here is some additional stuff that was on the machine. The dead center is cupped behind its point, so I'm not sure what that is about. Maybe someone here can enlighten me. I've also got a live center that seems to work well, and what I'm calling a spindle drive point that is functional but has surface rust.

I've got two of these 12-inch sanding disks, but this one is really caked with something that looks like epoxy. I haven't tried to remove it yet, so it may not be that bad. The other sanding disk looks like it has a self-adhesive sandpaper piece on it. I'm hoping that one is more usable.

I've also got a faceplate that I didn't take a separate photo of. It appears to be okay, and even has a piece of walnut attached to it.

There were two of these circlips lying on the machine. Unless someone can tell me where they might go on the machine, I suspect that they are from the old U-joints on my Ranger that I had to replace last winter.

Last but not least, this is Fowler. He likes to ride in the Ranger and accompany me when I'm working in the garage.

I will follow along with this build.

I have Mark V's but I also have a companion that helps me.
Dolly is her name and she is a Golden Retriever.

Great work your doing.

[MichaelCfffg]

An arm mounts to the table support leg and the screw crank presses against a depression in the other end of the arm. Yep missing a piece. Or it is hiding elsewhere.

FWIW, 8" is the original blade size.

Hiding somewhere would be a good bet in my garage! I'll have to do a dedicated search for it. Just in case I can't find it, where could I find one now? As I understand, the Shopsmith line has been purchased by a company that has discontinued support for the old machines. That is such a shame! They could sell a lot of parts to people like us.

Thanks!

[MichaelCfffg]

I cringe seeing all that neglect! I'm not in a big hurry, but now that I've started, I'd sure like to start using it. [Sigh!]

The good news is that even these relatively neglected ones can be a diamond in the rough. I managed to get a pretty good looking result on my last 10ER, from a very similar starting point…

viewtopic.php?t=5497&start=250

Keep those pictures coming - and good luck in the project!

Beautiful restoration job!

[MichaelCfffg]

Wow! Great information!

.............The only thing of note would be on page 5 ATTACHING MOTOR SWITCH which describes removing the bottom screw of the Name Plate. This is something that can be done with Version 7 Headstocks ONLY since there is no hole behind the Name Plate for earlier Headstock versions.

I kinda figured that when neither of the name-plate fasteners on mine was a screw.

The PDF below is an addendum I made for the Owner's Guide to use paste wax instead of light oil on the metal parts.

I had already downloaded that when I found it earlier.

The 9" Saw Blades were used on early Mark 5 Shopsmith's. As you have discovered the 9" blade is too large in diameter. 8" Saw Blades can be found and with carbide tipped ones they cut very well.

Well, that explains the two 9 in. blades that I found mounted with my machine. I do have another mandril with what appears to be a good, carbide-tipped 8 in. blade on it.

The most common belt used for the Model 10's is a 4L-380 with the most common motor found on them which is an A. O. Smith 1/2 HP Motor. Different motors may have the shaft positioned differently in relationship to the Drive Sleeve Pulley. A 4L-390 Belt is also useful for adding additional speeds as indicated in the chart below.

That is interesting. Not knowing the correct belt at the time, I just bought a duplicate of the worn-out belt that was already on the machine. It was a 3L-370, and that size seems to be working alright for now. It is a 3/8 wide x 37 in. long belt.

I had already downloaded that chart as well when I found it earlier.

............. Because I have done a lot of Shopsmith restorations I have a PVC Pipe capped on both ends, one fixed the other removable, to de-rust Way (and Bench) Tubes in. Bench Tubes are used on Mark series Shopsmith's.

The PVC parts for that are fairly inexpensive, so I'll probably use that method with Evapo-Rust. I also saw a suggestion to put a smaller diameter PVC tube, capped at both ends, inside your way tube to cut down on the amount of solution needed.

I have no idea what the two mystery parts that look as if they attach to the spindle are. They are to large for pen turning.

The picture below shows the common Table Raising parts. There were two crank versions and the Arm JPG mentioned is shown too. The arm goes on the front Main Table Post. It is shown in place on page 6 of the Owner's Guide.

If you are going to keep the broken Motor Pulley for now, I recommend not using the 2" pulley position. It will wear out the belt much faster.

Near the top of the Maintenance and Repair section is a topic called Everything E / ER - Technical info, documentation, links which has a lot of great repair and restoration information. In the Community section is a Topic I started titled Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where. It has a lot of information about the Model 10E and 10ER................

I'll probably take those mystery things apart and repurpose the components. I might be able to use one of the mandrils to mount a polishing wheel.

I'm going to scour my very full garage next weekend to see if I can find that table raiser arm. If it's not there, I'll have to see if I can source one somewhere.

I suspect that my 3L-370 belt is skinnier than the 4L-380 you've specified. I'll have to look closer, but I don't think that it is coming into contact with the chipped area of the pulley. If the pulley does start causing problems, I'll have to see if I can find a replacement.

I've already been looking through those areas of the forum, and you are right in that there is a wealth of information there. Thank you very much for a very informative response to my posts! Do you have any thoughts on the 0.015 in. play I discovered in my spindle?

[JPG]

0.015 IS EXCESSIVE! New bearing(S there should be two for the quill). should get rid of that. IIRC 0.001 is the original spec.

[chapmanruss]

Even with around 150,000 Shopsmith Model 10's originally sold it would not be cost effective for a company to still be making replacement parts and accessories for 70 plus year old tools. The Table Riser Arm does come up for sale from time to time at online auction sites like eBay. One thing that does help is expendable items like the 3" Sanding Drum Sleeves and 12" paper for the Sanding Disk are the same size as the first ones made for the Model 10E. The Quill's Spindle has always been a 5/8" diameter reverse taper so most new accessories that attach to the Spindle can be used. As an example, I can take the Lathe Drive that came originally with my oldest Model 10E (S/N 1033) and use it on my Mark 7 and vice versa. Some current Arbors should not be used on a Model 10.

The Model 10's had 2 basic Arbors, the 5/8" and the 1/2" which were universal Arbors used for the 8" saw blades, Dado stack blades, grinding wheel, etc. It is the reason they have a machined wide spacer and two thick machined washers. The spacer and a washer are used for thin items like a saw blade and the two washers are used for wide items like a grinding wheel. The machined side of the Spacer and Washers face the item mounted on the Arbor. The current version of the 5/8" Arbor is now called the Molder/Dado Arbor. The 1/2 Arbor is now sold as the Shaper Arbor with the shaper collars instead of the spacer and 2 washers. There was a separate Shaper Spindle in the past.

The picture below shows a lot of the Arbors made over the years. The first two from the left on each row are the Arbors made for the Model 10's. The third on each row is the Arbors made for the Mark 5 beginning in 1954 and into the early 1960's. The top row is 1/2" and 1-1/4" Arbors and the bottom row is 5/8" Arbors.

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Arbors Labeled - inc.jpg (101.71 KiB) Viewed 343 times

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This is the best picture I have for those early arbors all together. Most of those other Arbors can be used on a Model 10E or 10ER.

As for the 0.015 play in the Spindle that may be corrected, as JPG suggested, by replacing the two bearings. I would also consider replacing the two Drive Sleeve Bearings. It is possible, but not as likely, that the Spindle is bent. One of my Model 10 restorations had a bent Spindle which I replaced. Its runout was much worse.

The 3L-370 belt is skinnier than the 4L-380 normally used and would sit lower in the pulley grooves. It may slip more than the normal 4L-380 belt.

[MichaelCfffg]

................As for the 0.015 play in the Spindle that may be corrected, as JPG suggested, by replacing the two bearings. I would also consider replacing the two Drive Sleeve Bearings. It is possible, but not as likely, that the Spindle is bent. One of my Model 10 restorations had a bent Spindle which I replaced. Its runout was much worse.............

I was under the impression that these older machines had only one spindle bearing. If I've got two, that's twice as good! Where could a person get new bearings, and is there a video that shows how to replace them?

Where are the drive sleeve bearings in the machine? If they're in the drawings and parts lists in the Owner's Manual, I've missed them.

Thanks again!

[MichaelCfffg]

............Where could a person get new bearings, and is there a video that shows how to replace them?

Where are the drive sleeve bearings in the machine? .............

As Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say on SNL, "Nevermind!"

I found a really good video on YouTube by mkctools that shows how to remove the quill and spindle assembly and then replace the bearings. It looks quite easy. He also specifies using Fafnir 202KLL3 bearings to replace the original ones. Now to see if I can find those!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MbGbefGFDQ

I also figured out where the drive sleeve is. It is the rear fixed-position sleeve with the spindle pulley on its rear, and containing internal splines that drive the sliding splines on the rear end of the spindle. Now I'll look for a video that shows how to replace its bearing(s).

[JPG]

One word of caution! Be careful to not apply pressure on the outer ring of the quill bearings. Only press against the inner ring when installing on shaft. The reverse is true when installing the shaft/bearing assembly into the bore(pressure only to the outer ring). A bearing puller from Harbor Freight will help greatly. The fafnir bearings are both expensive and difficult to find(worth the effort, but lessor bearing will work, just not as precise).

[Real1shepperd]

The video you found was Skip's. Great guy, has helped me with parts and info in the past! He's a stickler for Fafnir bearings, but good luck finding those....maybe on eBay as NOS. Lots of people have used other bearings with great success. I haven't done this yet because I have no play and/or sound from mine yet. If you do take your old bearing off properly without damage and you can clean & regrease, assuming there was no roughness once cleaned, you could continue using the originals. Given that most bearings are made in China now, regreasing original US bearings has become a 'thing'.

Like I said before, the cleaner you make those way tubes, the better your life will be using your machine a lot. And when you add a speed changer, there's another source of friction as it moves with the headstock. I paste wax the table and the extension table too. Makes a lot of difference sliding wood on those. Don't scour the Earth or pay crazy prices for the discontinued Johnson paste wax product. Minwax works equally as well.

I wished I had the space to restore 10E/ERs, but I'd have to sell them when done. Another hobby I don't need unless I had an unlimited access supply of 10E/ERs.

I had original blades with mine and a dado. I even bought a blade sharpener and learned how to use it. All that worked great, but those old blades don't keep an edge like the newer carbide blades do. You can go down to HD and buy an 8" carbide blade that will work great. It's one of the few items that's improved over the years.

For rust removal on large surfaces(and small) I use an air tool that has replaceable fiber discs....looks like woven fibrous Scotchbrite. They come in different grit grades. I do piston tops with these too. They are amazing and unscrew from your air tool mandrel to throw away!

That's not epoxy on that sanding disc...just glue. They used to glue on the sanding discs. Now they just self-stick and are available everywhere. You can soak the disc underwater to loosen the glue.

Kevin