ZCI material

[JPG]

Missing? - don't think so. I made the previous comment since I 'think' not using something out of habit or perception can be less advantageous than simply using it.

FWIW, I have yet to create a ZCI myself. Oh there have been times I wished I had, but I simply have yet to do so.

One thing I notice when observing others demonstrating making one is they do not snug the table 'elevation' lock to remove wobble when lowering the table down onto the blade. I think that it would be desirable to do so.

As a side comment, I wonder WHY our favorite SS demo guru counterbored the mounting screw holes rather than countersinking them. Is it possible that provides a range of possible wood crushing that allows height tweaking?

[algale]

That's the great thing about a Shopsmith: There are often a lot of different ways to accomplish the same thing. With a regular table saw, if you need to adjust the width of a rip a little your only choice is to unlock and move the rip fence a little. You can do that on the Shopsmith in table saw mode,too. But on a Shopsmith you can also move the carriage a little, move the head stock a little, or move the quill a little. I usually find it easier and more accurate for me to move the quill a hair rather than unlock my fence and nudge it over. As long as the quill is locked (as it always should be in table saw mode) I've had no issues. Theoretically if one extends the quill all the way you might get a little more run out than if the quill is fully retracted. But in table saw mode, that just means you get a very slightly wider kerf.

[BuckeyeDennis]

I see it as a double-edged sword, RFGuy. My inital inclination was to do exactly as you do. But on my particular machine, I wasn’t happy with the positioning repeatability. That rubber bumper ring is fine as an energy-absorbing bump stop, but the headstock is far from flat where it makes contact. And if I can’t repeat to within 0.005”, I’m not a happy camper. Fortunately, the quill adjustment provides an easy way to compensate for any lack of repeatability resulting from the “unconventional” degrees of freedom inherent in a Shopsmith.

[RFGuy]

I see it as a double-edged sword, RFGuy. My inital inclination was to do exactly as you do. But on my particular machine, I wasn’t happy with the positioning repeatability. That rubber bumper ring is fine as an energy-absorbing bump stop, but the headstock is far from flat where it makes contact. And if I can’t repeat to within 0.005”, I’m not a happy camper. Fortunately, the quill adjustment provides an easy way to compensate for any lack of repeatability resulting from the “unconventional” degrees of freedom inherent in a Shopsmith.

Dennis,

Thanks. I appreciate it. All valid reasons and I hope you understand I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and wanting to understand more. I will have to give your method a try some time and I really like your ZCI design with thicker material in the middle. I have bought my own before and they last me a long time, but maybe I should start making my own for the added stiffness of that center section. In reading your procedure, I just wasn't a fan of the unscrewing the ZCI every time. I mostly leave my ZCI in place as I don't often use the drum sander or do routing/shaping on my Mark V. With a little finesse I find that I can guide the ZCI back into place and eyeball the offset on each side to make sure it is centered - so no damage occurs to the ZCI. I am just barely moving it, in the end, because I have a bump stop that is in good condition since I bought my Mark V new - just a fine tune adjustment for me to find that original carriage position for the ZCI. Also, I am using a full kerf sawblade, so on a thin kerf sawblade there could be more of a challenge to do it my way. Dunno. Thanks again for sharing your procedure and your cool ZCI design.

[DLB]

That's the great thing about a Shopsmith: There are often a lot of different ways to accomplish the same thing. With a regular table saw, if you need to adjust the width of a rip a little your only choice is to unlock and move the rip fence a little. You can do that on the Shopsmith in table saw mode,too. But on a Shopsmith you can also move the carriage a little, move the head stock a little, or move the quill a little. I usually find it easier and more accurate for me to move the quill a hair rather than unlock my fence and nudge it over. As long as the quill is locked (as it always should be in table saw mode) I've had no issues. Theoretically if one extends the quill all the way you might get a little more run out than if the quill is fully retracted. But in table saw mode, that just means you get a very slightly wider kerf.

I prefer this method too. One of the amusing things about the Mike Young video attached above is that Mike rips his ZCI blanks to finished width using the quill feed as a micro-adjust to more accurately set rip width. I use this technique all of the time too, IIRC it is in PTWFE. But as far as I know this technique is incompatible with ZCIs (except for making them).

Conclusion: You can use the micro-adjust technique to install the ZCI, as described by Dennis. You can use the micro-adjust technique to make the ZCI, as described by Mike. But you cannot use the micro-adjust technique with the ZCI to rip finished pieces for your project.(?)

- David

[dusty]

I am confused...and...I may be wrong but if you push the carriage tight against the rubber bumper (with the rubber bumper against the headstock) does the blade not come up through the table insert opening "in the center" of the opening... About 3.047inches away from the blade.


Just a question for those who "micro-adjust.....what level of precision do you demand of yourself when performing a table alignment (to the blade).?

[RFGuy]

I prefer this method too. One of the amusing things about the Mike Young video attached above is that Mike rips his ZCI blanks to finished width using the quill feed as a micro-adjust to more accurately set rip width. I use this technique all of the time too, IIRC it is in PTWFE. But as far as I know this technique is incompatible with ZCIs (except for making them).

Conclusion: You can use the micro-adjust technique to install the ZCI, as described by Dennis. You can use the micro-adjust technique to make the ZCI, as described by Mike. But you cannot use the micro-adjust technique with the ZCI to rip finished pieces for your project.(?)

- David

David,

Good to know you use the quill adjust as well. It seems like several forum members here love to use the quill feed adjustment for TS operation. I just never tried doing this before I started using ZCI's on my Mark V. Kind of difficult to use this feature for anything in TS operation except perhaps ZCI adjustment as you and Dennis pointed out. There are always different methods to accomplish a given operation. As you point out Mike uses the quill adjustment to set the rip width, but his cut has to be in a non-ZCI operation. I admit trying to get the rip fence on Shopsmith equipment to a precise adjustment requires some effort (why I fantasize so much about putting an Incra LS Positioner or DRO on a TS). MUCH less effort to set the rip width using the quill adjustment than to bump the fence by hand - hence the advice on this thread. However, there was a much simpler solution to this one particular problem. Mike says the Shopsmith insert is precisely 3.0" wide. WHY not take a machinist 1-2-3 block and set the rip fence to blade to give a 3.0" cut width that way? Heck of A LOT faster and more precise AND no messing with the quill adjustment! Also cut will be precisely 3.0" because Mike's method requires no human error in sighting the tape measure to the blade while simultaneously adjusting the quill. Since it is exactly a 3.0" width cut, a 1-2-3 block between the sawblade inside carbide tooth tip and the rip fence would precisely set a 3.0" width cut with NO human error. Not picking on Mike here, but just illustrating that there is always another solution to a problem - sometimes that solution is A LOT more elegant. In summary, I appreciate all of the feedback on this thread. I am happy to try out other solutions and when I find something better, I am happy to switch to it. For me, the jury is still out on aligning a ZCI as suggested on this thread, but I am open to try it. However, the ZCI design that Dennis showed, I really like and would adopt that if/when I start making my own ZCI's. May even try it before my current ZCI wears out just because I really like the idea of a stiffer ZCI particularly near the blade. Thanks again for giving me some new things to think about and/or try in my shop.

P.S. When are we getting that Mark XXX model that has a rack & pinion waytube adjustment for the headstock and the carriage like the Mark VII had? One that has the ability to keep a ZCI in the table that can be locked in position to the quill adjustment???

[HopefulSSer]

When I'm ripping to some particular narrow-ish width, I bring the rip fence in very close to what I want then use gauge blocks (1-2-3 block, etc) and the quill to get to the exact dimension I want.

As for the ZCI, I don't have one nor have I made one, but it makes sense to me that aligning the insert to the blade would be much easier using the fine adjustment control the quill gives you vs the coarser, more imprecise movement you get moving the headstock or table to align everything. (And of course if the bump stop brings everything into close enough alignment every time, then the whole thing becomes moot.)

[RFGuy]

When I'm ripping to some particular narrow-ish width, I bring the rip fence in very close to what I want then use gauge blocks (1-2-3 block, etc) and the quill to get to the exact dimension I want.

As for the ZCI, I don't have one nor have I made one, but it makes sense to me that aligning the insert to the blade would be much easier using the fine adjustment control the quill gives you vs the coarser, more imprecise movement you get moving the headstock or table to align everything. (And of course if the bump stop brings everything into close enough alignment every time, then the whole thing becomes moot.)

Yeah, but a ZCI is imperative to keep sawdust from escaping above the table. Some of us have shops that attach to our living space, e.g. mine is an attached garage. I have had too many friends and family I know impacted by lung issues due to sawdust in semi-professional woodworking so I am going to take every step that I can to minimize it in my shop. NOT going to use ANY TS without a ZCI in my shop. Remember, just because the core Shopsmith machine is a 75 year old design, doesn't mean that we have to keep doing woodworking like it was done 75 years ago, i.e. without a ZCI. It is a feature you can choose NOT to use, but for me that isn't an option. Hence, I don't use my quill adjustment in TS operation because it would interfere with the ZCI.

[HopefulSSer]

I'm not saying don't use one, only that I haven't and therefore cannot comment from personal experience wrt using the quill for blade alignment with one. But the ease with which moving the quill can make other adjustments no doubt carries through to making sure the blade aligns with the ZCI

And of course as you point out, if you ARE using a ZCI then your blade position is fixed to the table so you can't use the quill for micro-adjustments to cut width.