Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

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RFGuy
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by RFGuy »

JPG wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 2:17 pm I hope mtc's distaste of scrapping is strong enough to allow delaying decision until he has more time to consider the decision.

I fully appreciate others who consider it a hopeless cause since it looks so much so. But since I have seen what is possible(maybe here?) am not so quick to condemn it.

DAMN Location, Location, Location, again!
JPG,

I agree that not throwing it away would be preferable, but I was just trying to point out that it might not be pragmatic. Also wasn't clear to me from him whether he intended to restore it, or sell it for parts. I know you hate analogies, but IF it had been a 10ER it would be equivalent to saving a 1957 Chevy ;) . Given the number of Mark V's in the world, saving this particular one might be akin to saving a 1980 Impala. :( Trying to put it into perspective, but then not everyone sees things the way that I do. :( JMO. I do wonder how well Mark V's sell in his part of the country, but we need to know whereabouts mytoiletsclogged lives.
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by JPG »

Wichita Kansas
╔═══╗
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E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
mytoiletsclogged
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by mytoiletsclogged »

@RF Guy, so first thing, I've posted a couple of times I live near Wichita Kansas. I just checked my profile and added Wichita there.

Second, I have this machine in my back yard now. I'm still going out to my uncle's every 2nd or 3rd day to get more stuff. Monday after the power company came and cut all of the lines down, I got a whole bunch of large gauge copper lines, aluminum cables and I pulled nearly all of the electrical out of the barn and house basement, and all of the copper piping I could reach in the basement (not going to break open walls for piping and wiring). I'll probably go pick up all the firewood I can today.

This whole thing has been about clearing this stuff from my uncle's property. This machine was sitting in the barn and basically exposed to weather because the doors were all open and the roof was more of a suggestion. I really don't know if it was in this bad condition when my uncle brought it to his place, or if it degraded to this point after sitting there for years. I passed by this thing many times and so did others, but as I got more stuff cleared out, I was able to get to this and slide it out across several lengths of the barn sheetmetal siding.

I've done almost all of this by myself but the farmer who bought the place helped me lift the ShopSmith up onto my trailer, and when I got it home I lifted one end with my dolly and rolled/slid it down my trailer ramps to the ground. The farmer has also pulled some things out of the woods with his tractor and loaded the lawn tractors and a couple of appliances on my trailer with his tractor and saved me a lot of time, sweat and backache.

I'm not in a huge rush to make a final decision on the ShopSmith, but for all the rest of the JUNK (boats on trailers, lawn tractors, piles of motors and small engines removed from unknown machines, stack of aluminum frame doors and windows...), I have to be conscious that the city will eventually pitch a fit and demand that I clean it up if I take too long.

And then there's my wife who isn't thrilled that I've brought all this junk home, but she understands there is a nice chunk of change sitting here.
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by dusty »

Let me put it this way - If it was nearby and I knew it was going to the dump = i'd take it off his hands.
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

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mytoiletsclogged wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 9:11 am @RF Guy, so first thing, I've posted a couple of times I live near Wichita Kansas. I just checked my profile and added Wichita there.

Second, I have this machine in my back yard now.
...
This whole thing has been about clearing this stuff from my uncle's property.
...
I'm not in a huge rush to make a final decision on the ShopSmith
Sorry, I guess I missed your post about location. So, here is an example (link below) of a very decent looking Mark V for sale in Wichita on Craigslist for $500. It may not sell for that much, but that is the ask price. I just wanted to get a baseline of what it might be worth should you fix it up and want to sell it or try to unload it as-is. Would you want to keep it for yourself? Are you a woodworker or want to be one? Fixing it is certainly possible and there are countless examples of this on this forum. It just comes down to time, energy and money. IF the local market in Wichita doesn't support reselling it as a whole unit, because it would take too much money to bring it back to a decent state, then you can part it out, i.e. chop and sell. Whatever you decide this forum is a wealth of resources for you and there are many restorers and also those who do the fix up and resell on the forum who can guide you. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

https://wichita.craigslist.org/tls/d/wi ... 21006.html
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by mytoiletsclogged »

RFGuy wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 1:20 pm So, here is an example (link below) of a very decent looking Mark V for sale in Wichita on Craigslist for $500.

https://wichita.craigslist.org/tls/d/wi ... 21006.html
Thanks. I've seen that listing in Wichita. I either found that before or somebody posted it before as an example of what this one SHOULD look like.

I have no desire or bandwidth to fix it up and keep it and use it. I might want to start woodworking at some point, but I'm 62 now and at this time I don't even have room for this thing. The extent of my woodworking at this point has been home improvement projects and building utilitarian strong and useful though not artful garage type storage shelving and cabinets.

I would want only to sell it as-is, part it out or scrap it--probably will end up being some of both.

I think the best analogy somebody posted was that of a '57 Chevy BelAir vs. a 1980 Impala. I was using this analogy myself to ask for advice for the two old and neglected boats that I have to decide what to do with--and on boating forums both are leaning toward the ruined 1980 Impala designation. I will probably remove all metal from both, take them to the city dump and scrap the trailers.

I've owned a 1960 and a 1968 Impala; my brother had a 1965 Impala. Our stepdad has owned a beautiful 1957 wagon for almost 50 years and does new things to it over the years. I love the 60s and 1970 Impalas (1971 and later were battleships), but I can think of nothing that would make me want a 1980 Impala nor ever spend the time and money to fix one up--especially one in this sorry condition.

My cousins already sold or kept anything that had any obvious value (coins, guns, gold, silver, unopened boxes of sports cards, and even broken down machinery like two Bobcat mowers...) They gave away a lot of stuff. They hauled carloads and pickup loads to a local thrift shop.
They gave a lot to their half-brother that none of us knew about until about ten years ago.

There are other cousins but it was mostly his sister/my mom, my uncle's oldest daughter and myself helping him out as his health failed. I missed a lot of years of his life after I joined the Navy and didn't return home for 41 years after that. They gave me two boxes of my uncle's reloading gear, three 75 lb bags of lead shot, all of his old baseball caps and a bunch of his old coats--a lot of this I can use or sell on eBay. I asked to buy his .270 deer rifle--and I'd have to clean IT up of surface rust and neglect. And all of the scrap metal and firewood I can haul. I brought home a pickup load and a trailer full of firewood today.

I loved my uncle and I knew he loved me. He was only 16 years older than me and lived with us for years when I was very little. He was the only person who took me hunting when I was a kid. He and my aunt could have called my brother and I their starter kids for the amount of time we spent with them before any of my cousins were born, because of things I still don't know about my parents. Only he, my mom and a GF at the time saw me off at the bus station when I left for Navy bootcamp. But he had some faults.

It kinda comes down to this for just about everything out there. He had no 1957 BelAir. Everything he dragged home was only a 1980 Impala that was already in very sorry condition that nobody else wanted. My cousins had to tow away at least five broken down old cars, and none were anything anyone would want to fix up. As of today I've hauled away over 14,000 lbs of scrap steel--mostly rusty farm fencing, homemade hog feeders all rusted through, broken down machinery left outside to rust for years--name it. I've hauled away six broken down old lawn tractors. Only one has parts I can sell on eBay (1973 Craftsman that's missing parts), and one is a newER Walmart brand Murray that I may be able to fix up and use to mow my lawn (that he apparently cannablized for parts for the 7th lawn tractor that still ran and which my cousins sold).

Even his 2011 or 2012 Tundra pickup he bought new, it turns out the frame was nearly completely rusted through. My cousin who claimed it will have to sell the thing to a salvage yard for parts and scrap.
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by RFGuy »

mytoiletsclogged,

Yeah, I provided the 1957 Chevy vs. 1980 Impala analogy to make a point, which I will elaborate on here if you will indulge me. First know that I love my Shopsmith equipment. I have a single Mark V 520, but with several SPT's (add-on tools like bandsaw, jointer, planer, etc.). All told with accessories, I have spent something like $10k on this buying everything new. Most of it bought over two decades ago, so that number isn't inflation adjusted. IF I had to sell it today, I would probably be lucky to get $1k for all/some of it, if it would even sell in my local market. Mine is in excellent shape having been garage kept and living in a low humidity climate (PHX AZ). Much of the love that I have for Shopsmith is because I learned woodworking as a kid in my Dad's shop. I helped him build his woodshop from the ground up. The two of us did everything on it, except pour & level the concrete slab. After having a crappy Craftsman tablesaw for several years, he finally bought a Shopsmith 510 which he still has. His woodshop is small at 12'x18' so the appeal of Shopsmith is that you can do a lot in a small space with it. Also, it has 5 basic woodworking functions in one machine so it is like a Leatherman/Swiss Army knife. Similar to these, some functions are better on Shopsmith, but some IMHO are better on competing standalone tools. After graduating college and when I could afford it, I bought my own Shopsmith Mark V. So when I go in my woodshop I am connecting to loving memories of being in my Dad's woodshop as a kid. IF I had to do it over today, I would NOT buy a Shopsmith tool. In the intervening years, Shopsmith has been close to/or declared bankruptcy at least a couple of times. Don't get me wrong, it is amazing that they are still in business after seven decades and up until recently they supported well existing owners with replacement parts, etc. I have also matured as a woodworker during this time and I see some amazing small shops online using standalone woodworking tools. I no longer believe I need a multi-tool for my small shop. So, if I had to start over today, I would buy a good quality cabinet tablesaw, drop a router table in the side of the tablesaw table and creatively arrange tools to try to fit everything into the one car garage woodshop that I have. So, back to the analogy. Like that 1980 Impala, there are actually A LOT of the Mark V generation of Shopsmith tools around the United States, which is part of why resale values are so low for it usually (supply and demand). For comparison, a new one (Mark 7) is over $5k which is A LOT in 2025 dollars, but today's sales volumes are believed to be low. A Mark V is a workhouse and does most things well in woodworking, though some not so well IMHO. IF your uncle's Mark V disappeared from this planet, I don't think it would matter as there are plenty of other Mark V's out in the wild for someone to grab and restore. On the flip side, if you can get it to the right buyer that wants to lovingly restore or fix it up, that would be great. Finding the right buyer is the rub...unless one has a nostalgia reason to purchase a Mark V, as I did, or some other strong motivation to be steered towards Shopsmith as a brand, they are relatively unknown in 2025. The mainstream woodworking machine industry has passed them by so to speak. The population of existing Shopsmith owners are aging out, which is why you often find Shopsmith tools for sale on Craigslist, FB marketplace, etc. So, it is a buyer's market, but only if the buyer wants one and knows what to do with it. Okay, I have belabored this, buy hopefully you see that the Mark V that you have is nothing special, akin to that 1980 Impala that I talked about. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, of course, so to many on this forum the Mark V you posted looks like a diamond in the rough and they would love to get their hands on it to bring it back to life. I applaud them for wanting to do this and having done this in the past to bring other rusted out Mark V's back to life. To me, I am a bit more pragmatic and see that your Mark V is just one in a sea of them in the used marketplace across the United States. Some on this forum will see my comments as heretical, but I am trying to giving you an opposing opinion to have as you weigh what to do with this neglected Mark V. All of us here, myself included, would like to see that Mark V restored to a good condition, but I just want you to understand it would be a labor of love on your part to do so. Requiring considerable time, energy and money.

Yeah, I have a 2010 Toyota Tundra myself, garage kept. Purchased in Kansas so that was an interesting 16 hour road trip each way to pick it up and bring it home. Sad that your uncle's is in such sad shape. Honestly I am surprised that it can't be sold and has to go to a salvage yard. Rust must be wicked in Kansas... :( Do they salt the roads there if it snows?
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by mytoiletsclogged »

RFGuy wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 8:22 am Rust must be wicked in Kansas... :( Do they salt the roads there if it snows?
They do salt the roads here in winter, so we are definitely part of the rust belt. That was one of the first things I noticed at the San Diego airport when I arrived in December 1980 for bootcamp--all the cars were so CLEAN, and no rust. At that time you'd never see a daily driver here of any make without rust in key places where the tires would throw spray but which were hard to wash out. Even whitewalls were actually WHITE. Here you have to scrub whitewalls and white letters every car wash to keep them white.

Some years of Toyotas had a bad problem with frame rust, and Toyota actually issued recalls and replaced frames because of it:
https://www.cherishyourcar.com/toyota-t ... me-recall/

That's very special and you are fortunate to have memories like that with your dad. Not everybody has that.

I'm leaning more and more toward taking this thing apart and clean up the parts to see what might be usable, and sell those that are usable. That is, if there are any buyers. On one hand if there are so many Mk Vs, maybe the market for parts is saturated. OTOH, if there are that many Mk Vs and they are highly valued by enthusiasts, then maybe there is a high demand for parts because nobody wants to see them trashed or scrapped, so most are either well cared for or get restored.

But I'm not in a hurry because I have a few bigger fish to fry before I dig into this machine. The boats and the remaining lawn tractor will be first. But I have several piles of stuff to work through.

Thank you for your indulgence!
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by RFGuy »

mytoiletsclogged wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 9:36 am They do salt the roads here in winter, so we are definitely part of the rust belt. That was one of the first things I noticed at the San Diego airport when I arrived in December 1980 for bootcamp--all the cars were so CLEAN, and no rust. At that time you'd never see a daily driver here of any make without rust in key places where the tires would throw spray but which were hard to wash out. Even whitewalls were actually WHITE. Here you have to scrub whitewalls and white letters every car wash to keep them white.

Some years of Toyotas had a bad problem with frame rust, and Toyota actually issued recalls and replaced frames because of it:
https://www.cherishyourcar.com/toyota-t ... me-recall/

That's very special and you are fortunate to have memories like that with your dad. Not everybody has that.

I'm leaning more and more toward taking this thing apart and clean up the parts to see what might be usable, and sell those that are usable. That is, if there are any buyers. On one hand if there are so many Mk Vs, maybe the market for parts is saturated. OTOH, if there are that many Mk Vs and they are highly valued by enthusiasts, then maybe there is a high demand for parts because nobody wants to see them trashed or scrapped, so most are either well cared for or get restored.


But I'm not in a hurry because I have a few bigger fish to fry before I dig into this machine. The boats and the remaining lawn tractor will be first. But I have several piles of stuff to work through.

Thank you for your indulgence!
Thanks. Hadn't heard about that Tundra recall, but I know they had growing pains in the early years of truck manufacture. I still love mine even though I had to fork over $6k for a new re-manufactured tranny for it. :(

What I will say is Shopsmith is a niche. IF you can clean up your uncle's machine and part it out, I think that is probably the best overall option for you. Will require some work on your part, but not cost anything. Simply a waiting game of posting online and trying to find buyers for parts on it. Some Shopsmith owners have larger shops and can't pass up a good deal on Mark V's on Craigslist or FB marketplace. For example, they might buy one Mark V and make it a dedicated sanding station, buy another and make it a dedicated drill press, another for a lathe, etc.. They will buy some new parts directly from Shopsmith, but some things are getting hard to source from them I believe. Used Shopsmith machines are just too cheap in most markets that they can't be passed up by those who have the Shopsmith bug...in fact some confess to purchasing too many that their shop is overflowing with them. Parts of your uncle's machine may easily fetch a good price online compared to a new part from Shopsmith. These are your potential customers, in my opinion, and many are on this forum. They can possibly tell you here which parts are more sought after, e.g. JPG already suggested reselling the motor as one example. I can't tell you how quickly these Shopsmith Mark V parts might move online. You may have to be patient. I am just a hobbyist woodworker and I bought mine all new. In fact I buy all of my tools new and I don't loan them out. Sometimes I have to wait quite a while before I can afford to purchase something, but my tools last me a long, long time this way. Good luck with everything.

Yes, I am very fortunate to have those memories with my Dad, not just with the Shopsmith but in other areas as well. I believe one should be passionate in all of their endeavors and these common Shopsmith memories and nostalgia with my Dad enhance my woodworking.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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mytoiletsclogged
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Re: Old and rusty ShopSmith--Is it junk?

Post by mytoiletsclogged »

I've been on eBay for 25 years, and an eBay seller business as a side income for about ten years. I can handle the waiting part. I have stacks of tubs (or totes) full of stuff I've had listed on eBay for years. I just today sold a 4-1/2 foot projector screen case on eBay that I've had listed for more than three years. (I found it cheap at a thrift store in San Diego and used it and travel cases like it (one for golf clubs, one for snow skis...), to pack and move a number of long 2nd Amendment items in soft cases or wrapped in blankets.)

I sold quite a few bigger items on Flakeslist and OfferUp when we were purging to move from California to my Kansas hometown five years ago. That takes patience. I had never used OfferUp before that but our real estate agent suggested it, and I sold my son's backyard playset to a young couple with small kids. I got some $ back from what I paid and they saved a LOT of money over building it new themselves.

If stuff sells on Flakeslist sooner, all the better. But I can't get on FB. I'd love to use FB Marketplace, but after a 20 year Navy career and another 19 years supporting DoD contractors with security clearance and classified computer systems credentials, still drawing Navy retirement and using Tricare health benefits, FB who's plugged into ID.ME says they can't verify my identity and even told me don't try to appeal this again.

One interesting thing about eBay is that the more stuff you list, the more stuff you'll sell--and not usually the most recent stuff you just listed. Their algorithm moves all of your items up in search rankings when you regularly list more new things.

This is a very long story I don't wish to get into, but I've been also selling off a ton of my nerd idiot brother's Marvel superheroes toy figures new in the package, and dinosaurs, and Transformers... After a listing marathon of nearly 100 of his items, suddenly a whole bunch of my own stuff sold as well as some of his. He has more I haven't listed yet, but it was about mid-March when my cousins asked if I'd be interested in hauling away junk from my uncle's property for the scrap value, and I haven't done much eBay listing since then. This ShopSmith is just one of hundreds of things I've hauled away in that time, but most were more obviously good only for scrap value and even trash, like two 55 gal barrels full of empty beer bottles. There were cans too, but at least I was able to take them to scrap. We have two trash bins, so I just dumped half the beer bottles in one week and half another week and got rid of them that way.
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