Misaligned Rail Assy Holes

[jeffreygoddard]

Hi all,
I really do appreciate the discussion and points made within the posts on this thread. Please know that I am just a lone long term SS owner with exposure to only the one system I purchased in Fall 1986. Until this issue I never had any idea that there were multiple main tables or rail mounting holes.

However, my purpose of my long post this past Friday was not to debate holes, studs, tables, model numbers. But hopefully I was able to illustrate a snapshot of customer dismay, disappointment and frustration caused by ineffective customer service communication, follow-through and a failure to meet expectations. Heck, if I would have been told that my system would have benefited from a new main table because I had some bastard setup, I probably would have willingly purchased one.

My RMA has been received by SS today and I standby waiting to see what gets shipped to me now.

[dusty]

I hope your RMA included the table. Wuthout the table I don't see how SS can know the ussue. From what I have read there is nothing wrong with the kit except that it was not designed to fit on your version of a pre-86 table. Sure do hope I am dead wrong.

[JPG]

It is the interference of that rib that created the need to relocate the hole. With the original(version 1 of two) the rib was not a problem as the hole was tapped and did not require either room for a nut nor access to it.

As for the third version of the table bosses I presume that was to accommodate temporarily the need for boring holes in either location.

Regardless, SS CS needs to have their knowledge base expanded to include clear choices of corrective action. They clearly blew this one.

Question I fear is does anyone at SS GARA?

P.S. Dusty, SS should(at least Jim McCaan)(sp?) have no problem understanding this. It can be simplified by making the 520 rails with holes at both locations(that would eliminate one part number). The rest of the two upgrade kits need to remain the same.

[dusty]

What we don't know is just how many "version 1" non-compliant table there are. Shopsmith may not even know that given the changes that have occurred.

New table and new rails would solve the problem (without creating an odd ball system).

[chapmanruss]

I believe the main problem that jeffreygoddard is having getting the correct upgrade is how Shopsmith lists the two 510 to Mark 7 upgrades. The first is said to be for "Pro Fence and Table System (for units made prior to 1986)" and the second is said to be for "Pro Fence and Table System and Do Everything the Professional Do! (for units made in 1986 or later)" and is the source of the problem. His Mark V 510 was made and purchased new in August of 1986 and still has the original, 1st Fence Rail Tube Mounting. Because of the wording (for units made in 1986 or later) they sent him that upgrade. It is Shopsmith's error listing them that way rather than by serial number for when the change in the Fence Rail Tube Mountings occurred. Shopsmith should know, by serial number, when the Fence Rail Tube Mounting changed. That would also give the number of Model V 510 units sold with that 1st type of mounting. Based on the OP's serial number at least 4262 were sold with that 1st mounting type. Customer Service should have that serial number information in order to avoid this error in the future.

[JPG]

Marketing jargon rather than relevant specific facts.

[jeffreygoddard]

Update: received from SS upgrade kit part no 555983. See photos. Like many have commented, the placement of the middle holes on the main table for this version is the big issue. Now I really have a bastard setup. Functional, but not preferred. First off, the front and rear main table rails have an additional middle hole drilled with countersink that does not perfectly accept the cone shape of the screws. Second, because of the interference caused by the trunnion and support rib, the longer supplied 5/32" allen screws cannot be used. For the main table only, I resorted to the original Torx head screws. So now I have a hodepodge of fasteners affixing the rails. Note: the first photo has the old round tube version rail showing hole orientation.

[DLB]

Update: received from SS upgrade kit part no 555983. See photos. Like many have commented, the placement of the middle holes on the main table for this version is the big issue. Now I really have a bastard setup. Functional, but not preferred. First off, the front and rear main table rails have an additional middle hole drilled with countersink that does not perfectly accept the cone shape of the screws. Second, because of the interference caused by the trunnion and support rib, the longer supplied 5/32" allen screws cannot be used. For the main table only, I resorted to the original Torx head screws. So now I have a hodepodge of fasteners affixing the rails. Note: the first photo has the old round tube version rail showing hole orientation.

Note the instruction sheet for the "pre-1986" kit I attached earlier. For the 'center' location on the main table only, a cap screw should have been supplied and used in the existing threaded hole in the table. (front and rear) IIUC, for all other locations the threaded holes should be drilled out and the countersunk screws with washers and nuts should be used. This should allow the rails enough movement to be properly aligned using the jig provided. This is one of the differences between all 510s and 520's, a jig and a proper alignment location for the rails.

Now I know where the rails I have that have the "extra" hole came from. They appear to be identical to those in the 555983 kit and evidently compatible with both main table hole patterns.

- David

[jeffreygoddard]

I've been thinking about this "pre-1986" (per SS) upgrade to Model 520, the threaded holes and all that. Specifically, if you had this configuration how would you align the rail to the table top to the rail using the jig. Countersunk screw holes to threaded holes does not lend itself to freeplay for alignment. Since I've never seen one of these tables, I thought the instructions might be enlightening. (https://www.shopsmith.com/_files/ugd/d5 ... 015a6b.pdf)

Per the instructions, you drill out the main table outer threaded holes to 9/32". For the center hole it remains threaded, you use a button head screw and lock washer installed through "the counter bored hole in the front extrusion" then through a spacer and into the threaded center hole on the main table. For the outer holes you use flat head screws, presumably this portion is identical to a later 510/520. Evidently the front/rear center main table rail hole is counter bored for a button head screw while the other holes are countersunk for a flat head. Presumably the hole and counterbore for the center screw are also slightly oversized to allow for alignment.

- David

David, I should have read this more closely when you posted and perhaps I would have paid attention to use of the button screw in the linked SS instructions. I will say that the upgrade kit did NOT include these instructions.

Now I removed the old original screws and used the new longer flat heads (ends) and button screws (middle).

Is it really necessary to drill out the 4 outer holes?

Thanks, Jeff

[JPG]

To me the issue re drilling out the outer tapped holes is to provide slop so the rail can be adjusted.

Your 1st picture above appears to show a counterbored(flat bottom) at the original center bole location on the table rather than the tapered counter sink holes for flat head screws.

As for the excessive length, IIWM I would simply make the screw shorter.

I do not like the sloppy hole approach, but realize manufacturing tolerances make it likely to be necessary to get the 520 rails aligned to the table properly. It is those tolerances that made the design alteration(to 520) necessary(the early version was notorious for main table to float/aux table alignment).

If I were doing this, I would try without drilling out the outer holes and see if inter table alignment needed 'correcting'.

The mix of cap screws/torx flat head screws is to me not perfect but not significant otherswise.

I would appreciate a summary of the rail hole screw interface and the screws used.