Survey from Shopsmith

[JPG]

OK Guys, set me straight in my thinking. During the first two years of Mark V production (serial numbers 2291 - 15518), Shopsmith sold approximately 14000 machines. Is there a two period in the near past when you believe Shopsmith has sold 14000 units. If they have been selling, then maybe I am wrong. OK. I'm going back to lurk mode but I'll be watching for my lessons in Business Economics and Marketing.

I'm an old farm boy and I learned along time ago that if you never plow and seed you - never have to harvest.

NOR cultivate(WEED) NOR worry about the weather NOR scavengers(2&4 legged) NOR equipment NOR market ups & downs NOR whether to help your neighbor harvest HIS crop... In other words 'If you do not start, finishing will not happen' nor ANYTHING in between.

I for one would rather you planted your 'seeds' where an appropriate crop is desired. Yes we may have our collective heads in the sand and nothing will grow out of our sand nor will our heads sprout, but we DO believe in the validity of the past and lament the possible future or lack of it.

A NEW design/model? Not likely! Putting this situation down - Pointless! "Dreaming" of past glory/imagining a better future - Pointless maybe BUT far more pleasant!

KEEP LURKING! But be careful, you just might let a small sliver of enightenment into that hat rack and begin to understand.

BTW In your haste to make your point of 14,000 units in a two year period, you overlooked the simultaneous production(inferred by serial numbers also) of 500 models of over 4,000 units.
How convenient for your 'question' of what nearer(in time) two year period comes close since serial numbers were discontinued the following and all subsequent years making that determination IMPOSSIBLE! Ever hear of circular logic. If not would be wise to learn to recognize it.
Bet you are a "marketing" person! If not you have missed your 'calling'.
Keep in the shadows.

[beeg]

Now you people are assuming that the 1st one built has a serial number of XXXXX1, the next 1 is XXXXX2. We don't know, but it could be XXX100, XXX200 and so on.

[BigSky]

NOR cultivate(WEED) NOR worry about the weather NOR scavengers(2&4 legged) NOR equipment NOR market ups & downs NOR whether to help your neighbor harvest HIS crop... In other words 'If you do not start, finishing will not happen' nor ANYTHING in between.

I for one would rather you planted your 'seeds' where an appropriate crop is desired. Yes we may have our collective heads in the sand and nothing will grow out of our sand nor will our heads sprout, but we DO believe in the validity of the past and lament the possible future or lack of it.

A NEW design/model? Not likely! Putting this situation down - Pointless! "Dreaming" of past glory/imagining a better future - Pointless maybe BUT far more pleasant!

KEEP LURKING! But be careful, you just might let a small sliver of enightenment into that hat rack and begin to understand.

BTW In your haste to make your point of 14,000 units in a two year period, you overlooked the simultaneous production(inferred by serial numbers also) of 500 models of over 4,000 units.
How convenient for your 'question' of what nearer(in time) two year period comes close since serial numbers were discontinued the following and all subsequent years making that determination IMPOSSIBLE! Ever hear of circular logic. If not would be wise to learn to recognize it.
Bet you are a "marketing" person! If not you have missed your 'calling'.
Keep in the shadows.

Thank you so much for pointing out my oversight! This means that at one time Shopsmith, Inc had much, much more capacity to build than I originally had thought. With this new insight, I realize that those several periods where the charts appear to indicate production quantities in excess of 3000 are not anomalies. They actually existed.

Do we agree that that capacity does not exist today. I think so. We have heard that the productive team has been significantly reduced in number and that the manufacturing facility is also a lot less than it once was. This probably means that the current business plan no longer includes any near term plans for producing even as many as 2000 units/month.

What we seem to not agree on is whether or not a design change would help boost production. In the long term, IT IS MY OPINION that it would and that Shopsmith, Inc must have that in its business plan. Long term sustainability requires it. However, the plan may be to simply provide us with parts so that we can keep our dream machines running forever. That could be done with the current staff, in the current facility and with the current backorder times. We just have to get use to these long delays while we wait for our parts to arrive. I would agree that that would be better than not having a place to order parts at all.

Now, you may agree or disagree but I am going back to the lurking mode. It do not need these petty discussions about something that I have NO influence over.

[JPG]

. . . .

Now, you may agree or disagree but I am going back to the lurking mode. It do not need these petty discussions about something that I have NO influence over.

Praise the Lord! For once I agree with ALL of your last post. One of us HAS seen a glimmer(perhaps BOTH).

Tis true NONE of us has any 'control' over these situations, but it is really not pointless to 'discuss' them unless we are hermits in which case there is no one to discuss them with anyway. Perhaps 'pointless' discussions are what old fogeys do since they are used to vain discussions. Comes from fruitless discussions with wet behind the ears folks who 'know it all(within their limited horizon) and subject themselves to 'repeating history(or a similar sequence of events)'.

IMHO The reaction to most of what you post(when you come out of 'lurk' mode) is not so much what you 'say' as how you 'say' it. We could ALL use more open mindedness and positive attitude. This observation is a good example of my not wanting YOU to repeat MY past history!

Come out of the shadows! Enjoy the Good stuff on this forum. Keep a rosier pair of glasses on.

All this MAY be pointless/fruitless BUT I felt a need to TRY!:)

[Ed in Tampa]

Thank you so much for pointing out my oversight! This means that at one time Shopsmith, Inc had much, much more capacity to build than I originally had thought. With this new insight, I realize that those several periods where the charts appear to indicate production quantities in excess of 3000 are not anomalies. They actually existed.

Do we agree that that capacity does not exist today. I think so. We have heard that the productive team has been significantly reduced in number and that the manufacturing facility is also a lot less than it once was. This probably means that the current business plan no longer includes any near term plans for producing even as many as 2000 units/month.

What we seem to not agree on is whether or not a design change would help boost production. In the long term, IT IS MY OPINION that it would and that Shopsmith, Inc must have that in its business plan. Long term sustainability requires it. However, the plan may be to simply provide us with parts so that we can keep our dream machines running forever. That could be done with the current staff, in the current facility and with the current backorder times. We just have to get use to these long delays while we wait for our parts to arrive. I would agree that that would be better than not having a place to order parts at all.

Now, you may agree or disagree but I am going back to the lurking mode. It do not need these petty discussions about something that I have NO influence over.

I think your right to a degree but like the country western song goes you got to know when to hold, when to fold, when to walk away and when to run.

Right now people are money tight, they are fearful and they are either just making it or holding on to what they got afraid what tomorrow may bring.

I know everyone says to turn around the situation we must get this trend reversed but perhaps SS is showing wisdom at this time in the game.

I think they are in what you describe as sustain mode. I think they are hoping against hope they get through this economic downturn and can scale up. To bury tons of cash in R and D at this time could be suicidal. I think they need to stay tight, stay is sustain mode and at the first sign of economy turnaround launch into some new products. But I believe doing that now would cost more money than they would ever get back, money needed to sustain.

[cityslicker2]

I think Ed summed up my thoughts very nicely. I myself have a SS 500 that I have not upgraded (with the exception of 2 bearing quill) and it meets my woodworking needs. While I am sure those of you who are using 510 or 520 models believe they are giving you great value I suspect there are many 500's still producing sawdust in garages and workshops.

Woodworking equipment is not cheap and most folks are hunkered down and spending only on clear necessities (I realize many of you would include your SS stuff in that category!). SS is probably being prudent in their current management of limited capital - how many of us believe that if billions more are poured into GM that more folks are going to buy their vehicles. Right now no matter what their survival chances might be the American public is not buying cars of any brand. Hopefully for all of us, and my IRA (or is it an IOU now), the economy will turn around later this year and all of our manufacturing capability can return to more normal times.