Power trouble

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:24 pm

Ahhh! Spoken like a true EE. So much said in so little space!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:52 pm

charlese wrote:Ahhh! Spoken like a true EE. So much said in so little space!

NOT my usual Modus Operandi!:D

ryanbp01 · Post by **ryanbp01** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:45 am

After reading these posts, it got me to wondering if Cianci's garage is attached or detached from the house? I assume it is attached. If the issue is more power and not tripping breakers, maybe there is only 100 amp service. From a safety standpoint is makes sense to have an electrician look over the situation and recommend the best course of action. Besides, a licensed electrician would be more knowledgable about what the surrent electrical code is than us mere mortals. It might also save you more work in the long run.

BPR

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:17 am

cianci wrote:I am resurecting a old 500............when I plugged it in I tripped a breaker........the book says the circuit should be atleast 15 amps .....which there is a 15 amp breaker for the whole 1.5 car garage.....do I just add a bigger breaker to the breaker panel or will I need an electrician??

There have been several recommendations made as to how this problem can be fixed BUT in fact, we don't really know what the problem is. The major assumption has been that the power source is inadequate leading to electricians, new breaker panels, new, higher amperage home runs, etc.

Could it be that the headstock or the motor are bound up for some reason. Have we eliminated that possibility.

cianci, I recommend that you FIRST do what someone has already suggested - remove drive belt from the motor and apply power. Does the motor run with NO LOAD? Does it sound like you would expect it to? With no load, it should come up to speed almost immediately.

Then, I would mount the sanding disk and with the drive belt still removed - use the sanding disk to rotate the drive shaft. It should rotate with very little effort and should be smooth throughout the entire rotation. Be sensitive to any unusual noises (during rotation) or any changes to the pressure required to keep it rotating.

While doing this, if the speed control is not already at "low speed", put it there. Remember, keep the sanding disk rotating while changing the speed control.

Only with the results of these tests would I recommend any further corrective action.

One question: when you turned it on and tripped the breaker, did the breaker trip immediately or did the motor hum for a few seconds and then the breaker tripped? This is significant troubleshooting information. If the breaker tripped immediately - I would suspect an electrical short circuit somewhere within the Mark V or its power cord. If it hummed, and then tripped, I would suspect that the motor or drive train was your problem. The motor would be my first prime suspect and especially if the drive train can be turned with the sanding disk.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:28 am

bucksaw wrote:If your Shopsmith is a Greenie (3/4 hp) it will run fine on a 15 amp breaker. If your Shopsmith is a later model (1-1/8 hp) you probably need a 20 amp circuit. You actually need to look at the motor itself to verify the HP of the motor that is currently installed. Since pretty much all Shopsmith parts are interchangeable, someone may have upgraded the innerds to more recent parts. My Shopsmith looks like a Greenie but its inner parts have all been replace with newer parts. You might replace your breaker with a slow-blow breaker. When a motor starts up there is usually some type of surge that might exceed the normal capacity of the breaker. That is what a slow-blow breaker helps you overcome.

Check out the SS maintenance video. Pull the motor drive belt off and try running the motor without any load.

I wholeheartedly agree that a 20 amp circuit is best for use with the Mark V. However, under normal conditions (its not cold, machine is well lubricated and in reasonable condition) the Mark V (500,510 or 520) should start without tripping a breaker (even a 15amp breaker).

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:12 am

dusty wrote:I wholeheartedly agree that a 20 amp circuit is best for use with the Mark V. However, under normal conditions (its not cold, machine is well lubricated and in reasonable condition) the Mark V (500,510 or 520) should start without tripping a breaker (even a 15amp breaker).

It WILL trip the breaker, if you are using a couple amps elsewhere on the circuit.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:34 am

Review #10!

Understand #14; Very Good Direction(as usual from Dusty)!

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:41 am

While I a big fan of proper wiring I totally agree with Dusty and Jpg40504 eliminate any internal problem in the SS before you start calling in the calvary to rewire the house! Post 10 which points back to post 2 and 3 is the best advice the ones that suggest inserting a larger breaker or rewiring is potential overkill or potential killer depending on which direction you take.

Listen to Dusty to JPG40504 and follow post 2 and 3 and get back to us with your findings then if your problem isn't fixed we can suggest other steps to take to shoot this bug.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:15 pm

beeg wrote:It WILL trip the breaker, if you are using a couple amps elsewhere on the circuit.

When troubleshooting a problem like this, I often plug a bench light or drop light into the same circuit that the Mark V is plugged into. In this manner, I see evidence of what is happening to the power. A 50 watt drop light will flicker and dim slightly when the Mark V is turned on if the 15amp circuit is otherwise adequate and happy.

If there is a shortage of current available, the light will dim significantly and the breaker may trip. This condition may mean a rewire is in the near future but the fix could also be as simple as tightening the screws that attach the wall receptacle to the garage wiring.

These problems are simple to describe but are not always that simple to repair.

Whenever I find myself working in the main distribution panel for any reason, I tighten the screws that secure the wires within the breaker panel.
It never surprises me to find one sorta loose. A quarter turn can make a difference.

If you are going to do this, REMEMBER THAT EVERY ONE OF THOSE SCREWS IS HOT. USE AN INSULATED SCREW DRIVER, ONE HAND AND BE CAREFUL.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:02 pm

dusty wrote:...Whenever I find myself working in the main distribution panel for any reason, I tighten the screws that secure the wires within the breaker panel.
It never surprises me to find one sorta loose. A quarter turn can make a difference.

If you are going to do this, REMEMBER THAT EVERY ONE OF THOSE SCREWS IS HOT. USE AN INSULATED SCREW DRIVER, ONE HAND AND BE CAREFUL.

Very well said, Dusty!!:D A one handed man is a good thing when getting into a circuit box.

However if a person is lucky enough to be like most of us - with two hands - Put one hand into your pocket.