PTWFE Chapter 5 - Table Saw Moulding

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:42 pm

Yes you sure would be in trouble if the bite gets too big! These things are known for the kickbacks as much as anything else. I know some people just will not use them for that reason. The other thing is the odd wind noise you get from them takes some getting use to.

You know Ed I think maybe you are on to a good idea with any cuts like this, a stop collar would be a good idea. I haven't seen the trouble you mentioned but an added bit of safety sure makes sense. Perhaps this would be good for all cuts that are not through cuts... dado's, etc.

I have in the past used these but then when the adjustable stop collars came out I started using it. I don't leave it on but only use it when I need to... however the regular stop collar I use to leave on and then use when I wanted... maybe I'll go back to that idea.

Ed

Ed in Tampa wrote:One comment experience has taught me never to use the molder head on my SS unless I have stop collar on the main table leg.

Having the table slip down thus revealing more and more of the cutter not only ruins the cut but can cause a violent kickback. I simply will not trust the height adjustment lock alone, I will always have a stop collar on and adjusted so the table can not go any lower.

dlbristol · Post by **dlbristol** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:34 pm

I don't have a SS molder head, but I did inherit a Craftsman head which I used one time to made a piece of molding. I did not feel real comfortable with the thing and have not used it again. As for the stop collar, I will begin to use them with the dado blades. I was cutting dados and did not set the table lock tension tight enough, allowing the table to creep. When it got to the third or fourth piece the depth was such that it lifted the piece and kicked back. Much like forgetting the head stock lock down going to the drill press position, you only do it once!! I was using the push pads and other than messing up some stock and a pair of pants, no damage. The stop collars might have prevented this.

I wonder if I would be more comfortable with the SS molder head and knives. The SS head is considerably smaller diameter than the Craftsman. Actually this whole discussion fits into a decision I am trying to make about a SS router table, an OPR, or SS molder. I clearly can't afford all of them.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:53 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:One comment experience has taught me never to use the molder head on my SS unless I have stop collar on the main table leg.

Having the table slip down thus revealing more and more of the cutter not only ruins the cut but can cause a violent kickback. I simply will not trust the height adjustment lock alone, I will always have a stop collar on and adjusted so the table can not go any lower.

YES!:eek:

Get your stop collar from SS B4 they run out! They are too expensive on ebay!

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:29 pm

Hi,

I too have the craftsman, but they have had a few different ones. I was given one that had only one cutter! That was something I never tried... I guess it was cheaper that way but still worried me a bit too much.

Here is the picture of the one I use.

[ATTACH]3490[/ATTACH]

Ed

dlbristol wrote:I don't have a SS molder head, but I did inherit a Craftsman head which I used one time to made a piece of molding. I did not feel real comfortable with the thing and have not used it again. As for the stop collar, I will begin to use them with the dado blades. I was cutting dados and did not set the table lock tension tight enough, allowing the table to creep. When it got to the third or fourth piece the depth was such that it lifted the piece and kicked back. Much like forgetting the head stock lock down going to the drill press position, you only do it once!! I was using the push pads and other than messing up some stock and a pair of pants, no damage. The stop collars might have prevented this.

I wonder if I would be more comfortable with the SS molder head and knives. The SS head is considerably smaller diameter than the Craftsman. Actually this whole discussion fits into a decision I am trying to make about a SS router table, an OPR, or SS molder. I clearly can't afford all of them.

perryobear · Post by **perryobear** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:20 pm

Hi Guys,

For me, the router and router table can assume many of the roles that were once relegated to a Shopsmith size molder. I guess you can grind matched sets of your own custom cutters (beyond my talents), but if you were into that type of work you would probably want a setup with a cutter width greater than 1”.

That being said, I was introduced to the molder at a SS Traveling Academy session (I wish that I could attend another of those sessions now that I am starting to know what it is that I don't know, if you know what I mean

). I was intrigued enough by the molder operation that I did subsequently pick up a used SS molder head and some knives (as yet untried).

I have read PTWFE Chapter 5 (the new and 1955 versions) and re-watched Nick's sawdust session #15. So looking at molding operations as a total beginner, I have the following observations (with apologies in advance if they are all obvious);

Mounting The Molder Head

You can mount the molder directly to the Mk V quill spindle, using the molder head's set screw, or on an arbor as shown in the 1955 PTWFE version and mentioned in my molder's instruction booklet. However, if you mount it directly on the spindle, you will not be able to use your 510/520 lower guard for safety and dust collection. (This may be true for the 500 lower guard as well.)
To use the lower guard you must mount the molder head on a molder arbor including a narrow spacer placed on the shaft before the molder head to provide clearance from the left side if the lower guard. Note: The direct mounting of the molder head on the spindle is not indicated as an option in the newer edition of PTWFE. My guess is because of the saw guard configuration issue.

So, assuming that you are mounting the molder on an arbor, I guess you should keep an eye on the set screw that would be used for direct mounting to make sure it doesn't work its way out over time and become a problem. Just another quick step to add to your SOP when mounting the cutters. The set screw is fairly large so I don't know if removing it would significantly affect the balance of the molder head?

Lastly, I noticed that there is a top and bottom to the molder/dado arbor hex nut (I guess I should have realized this before

).

Auxiliary (Extension) Fences

Unless you are working with the full profile of the cutter and making your cuts in from the edge of the board, you pretty much have to build an auxiliary fence to use with the molder. One general thing that I have noted thus far in reading thru the PTWFE is that you need to take the jigs and fences shown in the book as just a “basic idea starting point” from which you can develop your own jig or fence. Lengths, widths, mounting hardware may all vary depending on your Mk V's table and fence set up.

No thickness dimension is given for the extension fence shown in Fig 5-10, but it appears to me that it needs to be thicker than the undersized 3/4” plywood or piece of 1x8 that I might typically use. I think a minimum 1” thickness would be advisable as there are several cutters where you may need to cover 3/4 of the width of the 1” cutters to get the partial profile that you need.

As indicated in Fig 5-10, you can counterbore for the mounting bolt holes on both sides of the extension fence and be able to mount it on either side of the rip fence; but not use it equally well. You would need to build it thick enough to allow the slots to be cut on both sides while maintaining sufficient strength, or simply come up with another method to clamp the feather boards in place on the “slot-less” side.

I am now in the process of building my aux fence in anticipation of trying some practice molding operations. There has been some good discussions on the molder and I have enjoyed reading it all. I am adding the stop collar to my molder SOP now for two reasons - repeative cuts (Nick) and extra safety (Ed).

Based on what I've watched and read on the molder, I do believe that you really do need an SOP, maybe even a written checklist, to follow when using the molder.

Best Regards to All,

Dennis

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:28 pm

Ed--Nice storage for your extra bits. I see you have a similar box to the one I have for storing Shaper bits. Got mine at one of the sewing stores. Probably Joann's. I throw those small desiccant pouches in with the bits and have never had any rust.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:38 pm

Perryobear: Just a thought for when you make that 'sacrificial' fence. Similar to the apple at cha n sled which incorporates replaceable zero clearance saw inserts, consider the same technique for the fence. This could allow different 'inserts' for different shapes. . . . barn storming here.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:56 pm

[quote="perryobear"]
,,,Auxiliary (Extension) Fences

...No thickness dimension is given for the extension fence shown in Fig 5-10, but it appears to me that it needs to be thicker than the undersized 3/4&#8221]

Just a comment about sacrificial fences - although I don't have a molder, I do have one - only sacrificial fence. It was made from a 2X6. There is plenty of room beneath the fence to hide part or all of a dado blade or a molder bit.

There is only one set of holes in my fence. I just turn it around to use it on the other side of the SS fence. As the sacrificial fence is 4 feet long there is no problem in simply turning it end for end and never changing the mounting carriage bolts.

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:13 pm

If the boxes say Plano then they would be the same boxes for sure. They come from Plano, IL about a half hour west of me where they have a outlet store. Need less to say I have a LOT of there stuff.

I have a supply of VPI paper so I either cut to fit or use a whole sheet and I also use a tool box liner pad in the bottoms of some of the items like the molding head cutters.

Ed

charlese wrote:Ed--Nice storage for your extra bits. I see you have a similar box to the one I have for storing Shaper bits. Got mine at one of the sewing stores. Probably Joann's. I throw those small desiccant pouches in with the bits and have never had any rust.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:54 am

So -- From what we have seen so far, there are few folks that have had experience with a molder. Dennis gave a very comprehensive report on his experiences, and Ed also gave us quite a bit of information to chew on.

It appears to me the biggest safety issue is proper and controlled depth settings. The adjustable stop collar seems like a "must have" for molder operations.

Sacrificial fences are another big consideration for edge molding.

I had thought that safety issues surrounding the setting and security of the cutters (or cutting bits) would have been a bigger issue. But is appears there is a pretty firm method of installing cutters so the safety issue is just not there.

In reviewing Nick's Sawdust session #15, he pointed out the two advantages of a molder as compared to other shaping set ups. 1) You can mold/shape the center of boards and 2) There is a larger "no mark" space from molder cuts. (as pointed out by JPG)

A recommendation to any woodworker thinking of getting into molding is to view Sawdust Session #15 http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Sawdust_Sessions.htm as well as reading Chapter 5 of the PTWFE.

One feature of a molder is - it shapes/molds only in straight lines.