Redesigned Miter Bar

[rocke1]

If Incra offered their 1000HD or SE with a bar that fit SS I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Several years ago I had rigid table saw and purchased the Incra 2000. I wanted to be able to use miter on my SS and found that Woopecker sold a bar for the SS slot. I don't have the Rigid any longer but can use The Incra.
on my 510.

Rock

[Ed in Tampa]

Okay
I'm lost again. First doesn't SS sell miter bars? Why can't those bars be mounted to various other companies accessories??

Doesn't some other companies offer their products with Shopsmith sized bars??

Isn't the real reason some products like certian Incra Miter Gauges not work is not simply because of the miter bar size but also because of the location of the slots in the table. In other words even it their bar did fit the gauge itself would not clear the blade.

Can't most miter bars be simply ground down to fit?

Why not make a bar from wood or plastic? It isn't brain surgery!

Lastly what is offered that simply can't be used on a Shopsmith because of the bar size and bar size alone?

As I said I'm confused by all of this. Shopsmith offers bars, other companies offer their products with bar, bar are easily modified, and easily constructed so what is the problem??
Please forgive me if I over trivialized this situation but I simply don't understand. Please explain it to me.

[dusty]

Okay
I'm lost again. First doesn't SS sell miter bars? Why can't those bars be mounted to various other companies accessories??

Doesn't some other companies offer their products with Shopsmith sized bars??

Isn't the real reason some products like certian Incra Miter Gauges not work is not simply because of the miter bar size but also because of the location of the slots in the table. In other words even it their bar did fit the gauge itself would not clear the blade.

Can't most miter bars be simply ground down to fit?

Why not make a bar from wood or plastic? It isn't brain surgery!

Lastly what is offered that simply can't be used on a Shopsmith because of the bar size and bar size alone?

As I said I'm confused by all of this. Shopsmith offers bars, other companies offer their products with bar, bar are easily modified, and easily constructed so what is the problem??
Please forgive me if I over trivialized this situation but I simply don't understand. Please explain it to me.

Ed, there is nothing to explain. If you are not frustrated by the miter bar and/or track the way it is then there is nothing that needs to change.

I have repeatedly gone to places like Woodcraft and found something that I would like to use on my Shopsmith only to find that it won't work because of the miter bar. Clamping mechanisms that utilize the t-track and feather boards are prime examples.

If you don't have these situations arise, then you are set. Relax and enjoy it. You obviously have set your shop up the way you want it. I haven't gotten there yet.

[JPG]

I realize this thread IS about miter bars, But y'all with 510/20 tables have tslot tracks for a miter bar slot. Y'all have the option of modifying the track(which IS replacable) or having two sets. Would this NOT resolve this entire issue?

Us 500 folks do NOT have this option so the subject IS still here.

If I have a mis-understanding of t-slots and miter bar slots on 510/20 PLEASE set me straight!:)

[dusty]

I realize this thread IS about miter bars, But y'all with 510/20 tables have tslot tracks for a miter bar slot. Y'all have the option of modifying the track(which IS replacable) or having two sets. Would this NOT resolve this entire issue?

Us 500 folks do NOT have this option so the subject IS still here.

If I have a mis-understanding of t-slots and miter bar slots on 510/20 PLEASE set me straight!:)

No, you are absolutely correct.

[a1gutterman]

...They do sell miter bars and I have three other than those on my miter gauges but the configurations are all tailored to the Shopsmith tables and not my jig configurations. I want bar that I can afford to cut to length.

Dusty,

That is a darn good idea. It is similar to mine about being able to buy way tubes and bench tubes by the foot/inch. I think that you will agree with me that in addition, the "T" track could also be sold that way, instead of the predetermined lengths they offer.

I have to ask; What lengths do you require for your jigs?

[perryobear]

I realize this thread IS about miter bars, But y'all with 510/20 tables have tslot tracks for a miter bar slot. Y'all have the option of modifying the track(which IS replacable) or having two sets. Would this NOT resolve this entire issue?

Us 500 folks do NOT have this option so the subject IS still here.

If I have a mis-understanding of t-slots and miter bar slots on 510/20 PLEASE set me straight!:)

Hi,

I am not in a position to speak for all situations - One thing I have come to learn is there are variations in many SS items over the years. I know there are at least two types of 510 tables out there.

That being said, on my 510 table the T style miter slots are cast as an integral part of the table and are not replaceable. (I guess I have to disagree with Dusty on this one - but I note that the 510 table rendering in his avatar does not look exactly the same as my 510's table.) The design which you describe is true on my SS Sawsmith2K table, but not on my SS 510 table.

I have had success simply narrowing the miter slot inserts on minor accessories, such as Rockler's miter slot mounted featherboards.
While I am all for cooperation between SS and other after market accessory suppliers, and it may be selfish on my part, but I hope SS leaves things just as they are.

Dennis

[mtobey]

I have been in a few- started some-finished some;) . I have a few SS miter bars for my 500. I have drilled and tapped for some jigs that I made. But, I have found that even the SS made bars are not a precise fit in the slot. Incra bars have a patented eccentric disc adjustment that helps fit up on everyones miter slots. The industry standard is 3/4" wide. This does not involve the tab runners that make a "T" slot a "T".
Saw blade location is only a hassle on a few items. I think one of the reasons SS hooked up a Miter Express is the "Fit cut" that is part of the installation. I am extremely pleased with the Express on my Shopsmith Mk. V.

I am just not in tune with a company that believes it must resist integration of standards to financially succeed. If the Shopsmith were not amazing on almost all other counts, I would not be here. I actually enjoy making some tools and jigs- but I would rather be making the end product. When I have a real goal in sight, then I do not want to have to jury rig something that should fit across the board. If all of the power tool makers out there were making miter slots sized on their whim, I would not criticize SS- but the fact is that there is an industry standard- SS is the outsider. It is as though SS has chosen to impose a frustration surcharge for having the other benefits of a fine tool- maybe if you were left handed you would recognize the irritation. If you are lefty- use that perspective.( An aside- I find it funny that whomever invented the traditional bait casting reel must have been raised with formal table manners-cast with the right, switch hands- those people have been making lefthanded reels since then. What is sad is that there are lefties who actually buy "left -handed" baitcasting reels so that they can swap back.)
My work here is now done. Thank you for your kind attention. Mike T.----Edit- I thought of a good point- I accept the lousy dust collection on an SS because the design won't allow for it and where they could offer better efficiency, they have done so.

[dusty]

Hi,

I am not in a position to speak for all situations - One thing I have come to learn is there are variations in many SS items over the years. I know there are at least two types of 510 tables out there.

That being said, on my 510 table the T style miter slots are cast as an integral part of the table and are not replaceable. (I guess I have to disagree with Dusty on this one - but I note that the 510 table rendering in his avatar does not look exactly the same as my 510's table.) The design which you describe is true on my SS Sawsmith2K table, but not on my SS 510 table.

I have had success simply narrowing the miter slot inserts on minor accessories, such as Rockler's miter slot mounted featherboards.
While I am all for cooperation between SS and other after market accessory suppliers, and it may be selfish on my part, but I hope SS leaves things just as they are.

Dennis

Dennis;

I don't know of any 510 table that has replaceable t-track. If I said that somewhere, I was most certainly wrong. There are some router tables that have an aluminum t-track that gets screwed into a dado but no Mark Vs that I know of.

Now, if there was a future table that offered the option of selectable t-track, I would certainly vote for that.

I have attached a t-track to an extension table and have that mounted on my MarK V but that was done with a t-track I purchased from Shopsmith and it fits the standard Shopsmith t-nuts and miter bars.

As for my avatar - well, it doesn't look exactly like any of my Mark V tables either. I think that the abnormal characteristics you see in my avatar probably have to do with the grooves in the table top. The grooves are incorrect for any Mark V table I have seen. This has to do with my minimal skills with Sketchup.

[JPG]

[quote="dusty"]Dennis]

DUSTY: See # 15 Indirectly you said 510 had t-slots since I originally(incorrectly) lumped 510 AND 520 together as HAVING t-slots. My BAD, your agreeing re 520 & overlooking my error re 510.

While we are discussing miter bar slots, we are omitting(so far) the existence of the slots in cast iron bandsaw, belt sander, strip sander, ... These are all intended to accept the 'narrow' bar.

It is NOT JUST a matter of changing/swapping either the bar or the slot or modifying either.

That being said, I do NOT know why the 'old' narrow bar width is 'SACRED'. SS created mis-matches with the fence with both the 510 and 520 table redesign. In 'hindsight' it seems(IMHO) to have been a logical time to 'standardize' with the rest of the industry.

The older equipment could be still used with an older width bar available as std new or optional. I am implying having both width bars available for the miter gauge and 3/4" t-slots in main table etc.