Kreg Miter gauge on the 510 saw table

[dusty]

Dusty,
Other than the miter bar, what "existing devices that utilize the bar/track" would be incompatible. Also, the 510 miter bar does not fit the 500 without modification. It appears that SS modified the track and bar already and it seemed to work out with users.

In some ways ShopSmith is like Apple Computer. They keep most everything in-house (except Apple doesn't worry that much about backward compatibility).

I don't have a particular problem with the bar/track as they are, but if they were changed it could open up the availability of other manufacturer's devices.
Dick

Dick,

I don't have a 500 so I am sort of shooting in the dark but I believe you can use the old miter bar in the new miter track without modification. Is that correct?

To use the new miter bar in the old miter track you have to remove the wheel from the bottom of the miter bar. Is that correct?

As far as interchangeability is concerned, I believe you are correct. Only those devices that utilize the miter bar/track are involved in the discussion. Devices like miter gauges will most likely not fit into the miter track of a Shopsmith unless the bar has been exchanged or modified.

This eliminates the use of many modern accessories unless those modifications are made.

I would like to see Shopsmith acknowledge this by making available the parts that would encourage this sort of modification.

Something like this in a variety of lengths. The biggest negative and probably the downfall of the whole idea is that this bar would not be usable in a 500 table.

[dickg1]

Dusty,
Yes, the bars will operate in both a 500 and 510 table. The 510 bar needs to have the disk removed for 500 compatibility. The point I was attempting to make is if the "530" table had a modified track, the major impact would be that any device (500/510) using a miter bar would continue to work by changing the bar. The only incompatibility is the bar, not the device. When I upgraded my 500 to a 520, I upgraded my miter by changing the bar. I would do the same to upgrade to a different track size. That would be an inexpensive upgrade to gain the option of using what are now non-compatible
tools.

Another thought for the "530"! Why not a milled slot which could take different tracks? Simply bolt in the track you need. Now that would enhance the idea that the Mark V is one great big jig - interchangeable tracks!
Dick

[dusty]

Dusty,
Yes, the bars will operate in both a 500 and 510 table. The 510 bar needs to have the disk removed for 500 compatibility. The point I was attempting to make is if the "530" table had a modified track, the major impact would be that any device (500/510) using a miter bar would continue to work by changing the bar. The only incompatibility is the bar, not the device. When I upgraded my 500 to a 520, I upgraded my miter by changing the bar. I would do the same to upgrade to a different track size. That would be an inexpensive upgrade to gain the option of using what are now non-compatible
tools.

Another thought for the "530"! Why not a milled slot which could take different tracks? Simply bolt in the track you need. Now that would enhance the idea that the Mark V is one great big jig - interchangeable tracks!
Dick

Now that is a good idea. A replaceable t-track assembly with an assortment of inserts that would make the table truly universal.

Shopsmith already sells a t-track that is used in the router tables but it supports only the Shopsmith Miter Bar.

[a1gutterman]

...Another thought for the "530"! Why not a milled slot which could take different tracks? Simply bolt in the track you need. Now that would enhance the idea that the Mark V is one great big jig - interchangeable tracks!
Dick

That is a great idea, Dick! I like it. As for your previous question:

Dusty,
Other than the miter bar, what "existing devices that utilize the bar/track" would be incompatible...Dick

I will grant you that it is only the miter BAR or, in some cases the "T"-Nut, but here is a list that I compiled of devices that use the miter slot: Miter Guage 505700; Miter Guage Package 555101; Featherboard 518215; Dial Set-Up Guage 555884; Miter Pro 555404; Cross-Cut Sliding Tables 555502 and 555535; Sharpening Guide 555204; Incra 2000 522161A; Incra 5000 522163A; Sliding "T"-Nut 514491; Mortising Hold Down 521900; Tenon Master Jig 555479; and Vise 555994. A lot of miter bars/"T"-Nuts to buy and change!:)

[dickg1]

[quote="a1gutterman"]I will grant you that it is only the miter BAR or, in some cases the "T"-Nut, but here is a list that I compiled of devices that use the miter slot: Miter Guage 505700]
Tim,
It would be a reasonable assumption to conclude that not one Mark V (5) owner/operator would possess all of what you have compiled. To summarize the 500/510/520 upgrade steps, not everyone upgrades and those that do, accept the cost.
PS. Nice compilation of slot dependent devices. I would add the 510/520 fence, though not dependent on the table slot, certainly has it's own (never considered that.):o
Dick

[a1gutterman]

Tim,
... I would add the 510/520 fence, though not dependent on the table slot, certainly has it's own (never considered that.):o
Dick

Someone else mentioned* (I went looking, but was unable to find it) that (along with the fences that you mention) the bandsaw and belt sander tables are also SS proprietary.

*edit: found it]
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3236&page=2

[dickg1]

Someone else mentioned (I went looking, but was unable to find it) that (along with the fences that you mention) the bandsaw and belt sander tables are also SS proprietary.

Tim, Good point, didn't think of those either. Changing the miter slot does have a far reaching impact beyond just the bar.
Dick

[fjimp]

[quote="dickg1"]Tim,
It would be a reasonable assumption to conclude that not one Mark V (5) owner/operator would possess all of what you have compiled.

Gosh Dick are you suggesting I must return some of those items I own or am I allowed to be the one Mark V owner who bought it all? Actually I doubt I am the only one very seriously. fjimp:p

[tgiro]

Dusty,

Just how much does Shopsmith gain by not using 3/4 inch miter slots?

Regards,

Dave C.

I would not expect nor ask ShopSmith to change any of their design or configuration to match some supposed standard. They are not the only manufacturer to have some proprietary design features in their equipment, which I consider to be pretty close to top of the line for their market.

I can, also, understand third market business to set their design efforts to the manufacturers who follow some defacto standards. I say defacto, because I have not heard of a standard for setting the width or depth of thing such as miter gauge guide tracks.

Having said that, some business have included the Shopsmith standards in their product offerings, so, they will get my business.

As far as Kreg goes - as soon as they sent me an email saying that they are not going to offer a miter gauge that will work on a Shopsmith, they got dropped from my list of equipment vendors. I have responded to to them to that effect.

I will not try to force them to build to any other standard than they have chosen, however; I will remind them that they are losing my business because of it. If they are willing to accept that - so be it.

[dickg1]

Gosh Dick are you suggesting I must return some of those items I own or am I allowed to be the one Mark V owner who bought it all? Actually I doubt I am the only one very seriously. fjimp:p

F. Jim,
By crackies F. Jim, I didn't suggest anyone should return anything, especially your Incra 2000 AND Incra 5000. Got to admit you have a lot of stuff.
Dick