Ptwfe - Chapter 7, - Drill Press

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:14 pm

robinson46176 wrote:I have always been very careful about never leaving a key stuck in a chuck but I have always thought that a switch that was turned off and on by sticking the chuck key in a hole to operate the switch would be a good idea.
I always work very carefully but at this point in my life I never when I am going to do something dangerous by working with my head in my... er, uh, pocket. That's it, pocket...

Sounds like a HALF POCKET idea!:D WOULD work if the 'hole' was vertical and the switch moved horizontally. In the case of the SS having to use the chuck key to turn on the saw etc. doesn't sound too handy. GOOD idea for stand-alone Drill Press!:)

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:46 pm

You can do a search on the web for the tapered wood screws if you want to get some. In the older days this was what any wood worker worth is salt used along with wood working screw drivers. I believe I have read that brass versions of this a main stay of boat builders and it is required that you use the right drill bits i.e. the ones shown. I believe I have also heard the holding power of these is a good deal more, I no longer remember the %.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/tech/ttp.htm

To see the description towards the bottom.

Ed

perryobear wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm still trying to “catch my breath” on the jointer/rabbet subject, but on to the drill press.

I noted in the beginning of PWTFE chapter 7 the repeated safety warnings on immediately removing the key from the chuck when finished tightening the bit. I learned a safety rule from a machine shop teacher way back in high school which sums it up and has stayed with me over the years - Once you pick up a chuck key from its storage spot it does not leave your hand until its back in its storage spot.

I also noted the various types of drill bits spoken to in the text and shown in Fig 7-3. I am familiar with most of them (haven't drilled much plastic) but I have a question regarding the “screw bits” shown there and in Fig 7-19.

When I look at the wood screws that I purchase at my local hardware store or HD, unless they are very short, they don't seem to have much, if any, taper along the length of the screw until reaching the very tip. I haven't checked them with a micrometer, but they certainly don't appear to have the long taper apparent in the photos of these drill bits. So what is the story behind this type of bit? I see they are sold in the various woodworking supply catalogs and they can be a bit “pricey”. Is there a special reason for using this type of bit? Is it a gimick? Have wood screws changed, or are there different types of wood screws (and I'm getting the cheap ones)?

Dennis

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:04 pm

[quote="perryobear"]
...I have a question regarding the &#8220]

The tapered drill bits, I must say, are a great time saver! They also add any uncertainty over the correct depth of drilling a shank hole. That is - IF you are drilling pilot holes for flathead wood screws (FHWS).

To me, personally, they are a gimmick! - Useful, but still... Personally I love to set up and drill "customized" pilot holes and countersinks. I believe it is just the old geezer in me that trusts my particular drilling over that of an engineer that has designed a bit based on a generic model. If I prized speed and convenience over craftsmanship I would use them. Also, I would use them for rough projects like porches, maybe outdoor furniture etc., but not finer furniture type woodworking.

These tapered bits have been manufactured in a number of different sizes. They all work well, if the proper size is used. However there is no variation in size of bit for say a #6 bit in a particular hardwood vs. the same bit in softwood. Also the only variation concerning depth of drilling is to move the collar on the bit. Yes, the 'shoulder' (old fashioned) way of making pilot holes is also not exact, but at least it is mine and can vary according to wood and application of the screw. If I had a production shop, and several people drilling, tapered screws would the only thing to use.

Concerning the taper of the FHWS you find in the stores. Yes, I think they vary a little, depending on manufacturer, but this can be compensated for in the shop, using the old method of making pilot holes.

All of that said - There are many woodworker that dearly love these tapered bits. They wouldn't use anything else. Their use is truly, a very personal decision.

perryobear · Post by **perryobear** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:00 pm

Hi again,

I continue to learn.

Ed - The McFeely's link was an eye opener. I was both right and wrong. I was thinking of a tapered thread in terms of the outer diameter of the screw reducing as you approach the screw's point, much like a tapered pipe thread. The reality is that for the most part, the outer diameter of the screw stays pretty much constant (what I was seeing), while the inner diameter of the screw reduces as you approach the point of the screw;The threads are becoming deeper (what I didn't notice). A closer look at some wood screws confirmed this for me.

Chuck - I see what you mean about wanting to be able to vary the pilot hole diameter based on the wood type. It would also seem to me that drilling exactly to the correct depth would be more critical with a tapered drill bit.

So for now I think I will pass on the tapered bit sets and invest in some good quality countersinks instead.

Thanks guys,

Dennis

dlbristol · Post by **dlbristol** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:33 pm

Just to add to the safety discussion. I am very wary of the drill press mode. My nephew, admittedly doing a dumb thing , caught a coat sleeve in a drill press. It was not as powerful as the SS headstock, but before it was stopped, he had sever injuries to the arm. Broken bones, torn ligaments, muscles and nerve damage. He did recover, but it took 2 years and many $$. Had he been much older, he might not have recovered. Someone said that the most dangerous tool is the one we least fear( respect). I have learned from his mess to respect the danger of this mode.
There are lots of little wrinkles in the bit, and chuck that will grab you. One thing that the SS has that I should use more is the removable switch key. It might have prevented the accident. Well, knowing my nephew, maybe not!!:rolleyes:

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:46 pm

Hi,

Just a little more on tapered drill bits for tapered screws.

http://www.boatbuilding.net/article.pl? ... ode=thread

and pilot bit / countersink info
http://www.boatbuilding.net/article.pl? ... ode=thread

Ed

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:24 am

dlbristol wrote:Just to add to the safety discussion. I am very wary of the drill press mode. My nephew, admittedly doing a dumb thing , caught a coat sleeve in a drill press. It was not as powerful as the SS headstock, but before it was stopped, he had sever injuries to the arm. Broken bones, torn ligaments, muscles and nerve damage. He did recover, but it took 2 years and many $$. Had he been much older, he might not have recovered. Someone said that the most dangerous tool is the one we least fear( respect). I have learned from his mess to respect the danger of this mode.
There are lots of little wrinkles in the bit, and chuck that will grab you. One thing that the SS has that I should use more is the removable switch key. It might have prevented the accident. Well, knowing my nephew, maybe not!!:rolleyes:

Unrestrained long hair, loose sleeves, very dangerous. Short or bound hair, short sleeves; those are the safe ways.

When I was in junior high school, I witnessed a young lady (fellow student) that got her hair caught in the drill press. She survived, but she lost some scalp along with some hair. Knot a pretty sight.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:51 am

Ed
Interesting decision on screw geometry. I have a question/observation.

When I was trained in wood working the screws we used were wood working screws where the thread diameter was actually smaller than the shoulder diameter, I think they were called cut threads. They were built using a process which first drew the material to the diameter wanted and then they cut threads into it. This resulted in a shoulder (if there was one that was sightly larger than the threads. I really can't remember if there was a taper or not in the threaded shank portion.

Today many screws are stamped or molded and have threaded portions either exactly the same or a larger diameter than shoulder portion.

Now if we use a screw size to drill chart I see no consideration for shoulder versus thread diameter. I also wonder if the shoulder which is slightly smaller (like many dry wall screws that are commonly used today) if there isn't some movement possible?

I have a drill sizer but I always wonder if I should use the shank diameter, the thread diameter, the shoulder diameter to size my drill with.

What I really would like would be a "Fine wood working" screws collection in various lengths sold with matched drill bits. Be they tapered or not.
I guess what I'm really saying is I can find what I consider furniture quality screws anymore. In shop class we used a screw that came in both coarse and fine thread that was almost gold colored. They didn't strip out, it was nearly impossible to strip the head with a screw driver in either the slotted or phillips heads, and I never saw one break. I can't find those screw today and find I end using dry wall screws.

Wow I didn't intend to have so much to consider in your responses, but what are you other guys using for screws? Have you found drills bits that perfectly match your screws? Have you found screws that have the proper geometry that don't split wood but holds tight? Has anyone found "Fine Wood Working Screws" and drills matched to them?

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:51 am

Ed
Interesting decision on screw geometry. I have a question/observation.

When I was trained in wood working the screws we used were wood working screws where the thread diameter was actually smaller than the shoulder diameter, I think they were called cut threads. They were built using a process which first drew the material to the diameter wanted and then they cut threads into it. This resulted in a shoulder (if there was one that was sightly larger than the threads. I really can't remember if there was a taper or not in the threaded shank portion.

Today many screws are stamped or molded and have threaded portions either exactly the same or a larger diameter than shoulder portion.

Now if we use a screw size to drill chart I see no consideration for shoulder versus thread diameter. I also wonder if the shoulder which is slightly smaller (like many dry wall screws that are commonly used today) if there isn't some movement possible?

I have a drill sizer but I always wonder if I should use the shank diameter, the thread diameter, the shoulder diameter to size my drill with.

What I really would like would be a "Fine wood working" screws collection in various lengths sold with matched drill bits. Be they tapered or not.
I guess what I'm really saying is I can find what I consider furniture quality screws anymore. In shop class we used a screw that came in both coarse and fine thread that was almost gold colored. They didn't strip out, it was nearly impossible to strip the head with a screw driver in either the slotted or phillips heads, and I never saw one break. I can't find those screw today and find I end using dry wall screws.

Wow I didn't intend to have so much to consider in your responses, but what are you other guys using for screws? Have you found drills bits that perfectly match your screws? Have you found screws that have the proper geometry that don't split wood but holds tight? Has anyone found "Fine Wood Working Screws" and drills matched to them?

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:26 pm

Hi Ed,

You must be shopping at the big box store, or even your local lumber yard??? There are sources for good screws. They do cost more then the ones that you get at the previously mentioned stores, but you get what you pay for. In the state of Washington, there are stores that I wood suggest that you try. My favorite is Tacoma Screw (sorry, 13 stores in WA, OR and ID but no FL). There also is Hi Strength Bolt (They do knot seem to have a "Home" web site but there are a couple around me and I found one in Denver; http://www.histrengthbolt.com/WorldView/default.asp?x=1&DID=1380 ) and Fastenal (3 Tampa locations

) ; http://www.fastenal.com/web/locations.ex?action=search&zip=&state=FL .
I do knot know if this will be helpful, but it is worth a try.