"It strikes me there could be an engineer, or two, here somewhere. I deal with engineers on a daily basis. I run into this a few years back somewhere. If there are no engineers, thats okay, hope you enjoy this anyway. If there are engineers, I hope you are not offended..."
I'm retired and you know even with being an engineer they never did let me drive the train, what's that about????
I really didn't do anything but simple math here, stuff I had in high school, I even make sure my writing falls in the [size=-1]the Flesch-Kincaid Index at around 8 like I was taught.... Just like we were taught that all the people in the shop were [/size]cretins but since none of us were english majors we had no idea what the word ment or how to spell it but we knew it sounded bad... Just keeping in the spirit of the event you know.
Ed
weekend math project
Moderator: admin
Well the weekend isn't over yet so - - just a little more around this subject.
Just in case anyone is interested, There are 6,400 mills in a circle. If I remember correctly (Army was a long time ago) an angle of one mill will produce a spread of 1 yard in 1,000 yards of distance.
In this thread, I hope I expressed my disdain for concepts and gadgets portending to give woodworkers accuracy in thousandths of inches and minute angles to. Many gadgets (Wixey included) sell because they seem cool. At the same time woodworkers pretend they will always be able to achieve great accuracy because of the newest and greatest gadget. Are such accurate results always obtained? If so - great! However I doubt results with these gadgets are any better than results using story sticks, squares and fixed gauge blocks. If I'm wrong, I'll be glad to change my attitude.
In my thinking there is no replacement for well tuned, sharp, clean tools, whether they be hand tools or machinery. There are replacements for accuracy accessories.
My son is an engineer (mechanical type) with a good sense of humor. His Son is now in engineering college. As for me, I'm just old and retired. Hated math all my life!
Just in case anyone is interested, There are 6,400 mills in a circle. If I remember correctly (Army was a long time ago) an angle of one mill will produce a spread of 1 yard in 1,000 yards of distance.
In this thread, I hope I expressed my disdain for concepts and gadgets portending to give woodworkers accuracy in thousandths of inches and minute angles to. Many gadgets (Wixey included) sell because they seem cool. At the same time woodworkers pretend they will always be able to achieve great accuracy because of the newest and greatest gadget. Are such accurate results always obtained? If so - great! However I doubt results with these gadgets are any better than results using story sticks, squares and fixed gauge blocks. If I'm wrong, I'll be glad to change my attitude.
In my thinking there is no replacement for well tuned, sharp, clean tools, whether they be hand tools or machinery. There are replacements for accuracy accessories.
My son is an engineer (mechanical type) with a good sense of humor. His Son is now in engineering college. As for me, I'm just old and retired. Hated math all my life!
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
So Chuck you took the army FDC classes? Me too, small world, from the people in my classes I'm not sure how safe anyone was out in the field... I think if I dug around enough I might still have my protractor in mills, circular and about 6" dia. if I'm thinking of the right one.
I got out of that and became a dog handler so I never really used it in the field.
Ed
I got out of that and became a dog handler so I never really used it in the field.
Ed
Hi Ed - - Nice Thread! Gave me a chance to vent!
Close call on the FDC classes. I was in Ballistic meteorology. You Know the guys that sent up balloons and gave corrections to FDC. Then went into electronics repair of the equipment. Never got out of Fort Sill. Stayed there as an enlisted instructor. Good duty! 5 days / week only!
Close call on the FDC classes. I was in Ballistic meteorology. You Know the guys that sent up balloons and gave corrections to FDC. Then went into electronics repair of the equipment. Never got out of Fort Sill. Stayed there as an enlisted instructor. Good duty! 5 days / week only!
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
"...I will give you one more board to cut, this time it is a 4'x8' sheet of plywood that you want to cut in half the 4' way. You have the miter set with only a .1 or 1/10 degree error... That should be close enough..."
Not to ruin a good thread, but what in God's green earth are you guys thinking trying to guide a 4-foot by 8-foot sheet of plywood over a saw with a miter gauge (the bar of which won't even reach the table during the beginning of the cut)? I understand that this conversation is a mental exercise in precision, but just in case there is someone out there reading this who is not as familiar with the limitations of the machinery as you guys are, I want to inject this: The technique being discussed can't be done safely or accurately in real life. Trigonometry is not a substitute for common sense.
With all good wishes,
Not to ruin a good thread, but what in God's green earth are you guys thinking trying to guide a 4-foot by 8-foot sheet of plywood over a saw with a miter gauge (the bar of which won't even reach the table during the beginning of the cut)? I understand that this conversation is a mental exercise in precision, but just in case there is someone out there reading this who is not as familiar with the limitations of the machinery as you guys are, I want to inject this: The technique being discussed can't be done safely or accurately in real life. Trigonometry is not a substitute for common sense.
With all good wishes,
Nick Engler
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
I always heard that an engineer is a person who determines the stress on a beam to 10 decimal points and then adds 50% for safety. 
Andy
andy@manvell.org
andy@manvell.org
Hey Nick the last time I put all that beware stuff you said:Nick wrote:"...I will give you one more board to cut, this time it is a 4'x8' sheet of plywood that you want to cut in half the 4' way. You have the miter set with only a .1 or 1/10 degree error... That should be close enough..."
Not to ruin a good thread, but what in God's green earth are you guys thinking trying to guide a 4-foot by 8-foot sheet of plywood over a saw with a miter gauge (the bar of which won't even reach the table during the beginning of the cut)? I understand that this conversation is a mental exercise in precision, but just in case there is someone out there reading this who is not as familiar with the limitations of the machinery as you guys are, I want to inject this: The technique being discussed can't be done safely or accurately in real life. Trigonometry is not a substitute for common sense.
With all good wishes,
" Good Lord, Ed, what a wet blanket you are. I'm participating in this forum because I did so want to sue your curmudgeoness.
"I felt safe posting this since one, it is a MATH thread and two, you can't even come close to using a miter gauge on a 4 foot length of anything... well unless you have a "extream" special built extra long bar... naw not even then.
Have a cup of coffee and think about it.... you put the miter gauge in backwards start feeding and bang it falls out of the slot after a cut of about 21" (520 table and some exposure of blade).... On the front you have to be with in say 21" of the blade to even get the miter bar started in the slot... and even closer if you want to really use it... now think about the fact we have 48".
So since you can't do it don't even try it with a miter gauge... WARNING WARNING do not use a miter gauge for this type of cut!!!!!!!! Remember this can't be done and is unsafe to even attempt.... This should be enough "precision in warning" for anyone... but if you want I will make up a sticker that you can print out and attach to your shopsmith and another for the miter gauge and yet another for each piece of plywood you buy let me know.
I just love a good thread!
Ed
We have a saying around here, Ed: "Make it idiot-proof and God invents a better idiot." If there is any chance, however remote, that a miter gauge could be used to make this cut, some new, improved super-idiot will find it. I thought it best to publish a disclaimer so we will all have a clean conscience when they announce next year's Darwin Awards.
With all good wishes,
With all good wishes,
Nick Engler
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
http://www.workshopcompanion.com
Yea your right about making things idiot-proof, just can't be done. It just seemed strange that when I posted a warning at:Nick wrote:We have a saying around here, Ed: "Make it idiot-proof and God invents a better idiot." If there is any chance, however remote, that a miter gauge could be used to make this cut, some new, improved super-idiot will find it. I thought it best to publish a disclaimer so we will all have a clean conscience when they announce next year's Darwin Awards.
With all good wishes,
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpos ... stcount=26
you replied:
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpos ... stcount=27
Now that same idiot who is trying to use a miter gauge might just be the one stacking his 104 pound piece of mdf oh... , sorry his "cannonball collection" on the out feed table, or is that not the case?? Just want to make sure if you want warning or not?
No one need answer this as, us curmudgeons are after all ill-tempered persons full of resentment and stubborn notions. Or if you like, a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of stubborn ideas. Either way it is a job we take seriously.
Ed
Your edited quote above says it all!!!Nick wrote: "...Not to ruin a good thread, but... Trigonometry is not a substitute for common sense."
Ah shucks, Nick! We were just having a good time having a weekend discussion about nothing! Didn't stop to think any idiot would assume one could even try to push a 4 ft sheet of anything with a miter gauge! Thanks for pointing that out! Someone might!
As Shopsmith makes a point that the machine will handle a full 4'X8' sheet of plywood, maybe the Company should put a disclaimer with that announcement on how it should be accomplished!
As for myself - I break down sheets of plywood with my hand held circle saw. Even built a workbench and jigs to handle same!
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA