Bearing maintenance... Mark V not run in 35 years

nreish · Post by **nreish** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:39 pm

I inherited a 1958 Mark V from my grandfather and am in the process of restoring it back to operating condition. Replacing the belts, power cord, and switch were an obvious first start. I am concerned about the bearings in the motor and the various drive shafts. They all turn but not exactly freely. The SS has not been run in ~35 years but seems in pretty good shape. Any advice on how to get them to move smoothly. Can they be lubricated?

Any other general advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Nathan

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:52 pm

nreish wrote:I inherited a 1958 Mark V from my grandfather and am in the process of restoring it back to operating condition. Replacing the belts, power cord, and switch were an obvious first start. I am concerned about the bearings in the motor and the various drive shafts. They all turn but not exactly freely. The SS has not been run in ~35 years but seems in pretty good shape. Any advice on how to get them to move smoothly. Can they be lubricated?

Any other general advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Nathan

Are you trying to move EVERYTHING at once? Some stiffness is to be expected. Bearing 'lubrication' is not typically possible. The bearings are sealed and unless the 'shields' are damaged/loose very little oil will penetrate them(may be worth a try).
More important is the lubrication of the sheave/shafts. If you have not done so, DO SO! If you need directions on HOW TO, HOLLER!

While replacing the Drive belt, did you check the motor bearing resistance with the belt off?

Are we to correctly assume it is a GREENIE?

nreish · Post by **nreish** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:05 pm

It is a Greenie... although most of the paint has flaked off the aluminum parts and the sheet metal is dull with some rust. I am not trying to remove everything at once. I removed the existing cracked belts and tested each rotating part to see how it moved independently. New belts, power cord, and switch are on order. The motor bearings don't move smoothly but do rotate without too much resistance... by no means do they spin like a skateboard wheel. The quill bearing is also tight. I was hoping to get it running but wanted to avoid doing damage.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:45 pm

JPG40504 wrote: Bearing 'lubrication' is not typically possible.

Actually that statement is quite wrong. I have been relubing sealed ball bearing assemblies both for myself and professionally since around 1972. Thousands and thousands of them. Often 50 to 100 a week. We operated a very busy vac shop for over 20 years as part of our businesses until we retired. Many vac bearings are around the size of the SS quill bearings and reach quite high RPM's (router speeds). They run in dirty environments, often for long periods at a time in commercial applications. We had special equipment for pressure lubing many of them and simple procedures for others like very small ones or odd sizes in the smallish ones. All of the larger ones will fit in a pressure lube unit. I also relubed hundreds of sealed ball bearings used in farm equipment and before anyone says farm equipment bearings are not the same, some are not but some are super critical.
Any relube must be done properly and relubing does NOT tighten up a worn bearing. It might quiet it down but it is still worn.
For the average woodworker (or handyman) the simplest procedure is using heat. Buy a can of electric motor grease. Then you clean the bearing outside until it is spotless. Place it on a common light bulb until it is pretty much too hot to hold for any time then poke it down in the grease and be sure it is covered completely. As the hot bearing cools it will suck the heat softened grease around the bearing in past the seals and you are done. It should spin well by hand (not freely though) and should turn smoothly.
My wife actually got quite good at most of them that didn't need opening up. I have opened up many of them by removing the side shields and cleaning the inside, lubing them and reinstalling the seals. It isn't all that hard on most but can be really tedious in little tiny bearings. It generally isn't something that most without experience will want to try. I do NOT recommend that most people use a torch to heat the bearing as the flame can burn the seals. You can however heat a heavy metal plate with the torch and lay the bearing on the hot steel plate to warm it.
Again, a worn bearing is still a worn bearing and I wouldn't waste my time putting a worn relubed bearing in a Shopsmith quill. If however the bearings are just dry it will cure them as well as a new bearing. It can also maybe keep you working until you can buy new bearings if you are in a production situation. Maybe you have dry bearings on other equipment.
I currently am saving (I save a lot of stuff) any Shopsmith drive sleeve bearings I change out because they will fit the quill spindles on my King Kutter 5' finish mower and it does not care if they are a little loose.

Drive sleeve bearings are a little more forgiving of a minor amount of wear than quill bearings as long as they have plenty of lube in them.
I assume that most guys making a full restoration are just going to order a full set of new bearings and install them and that is fine but don't discard the old ones if not badly worn. Clean them, lube them, put them in a clean bag and label them well. Someday you might be very glad to have one when a bearing comes apart right in the middle of something. Most bearings fail on the weekends you know...

BTW, my initial training on relubing bearings was by the Hoover Company.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:59 pm

robinson46176 wrote:Most bearings fail on the weekends you know...
BTW, my initial training on relubing bearings was by the Hoover Company.

Well that sucks.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:02 am

beeg wrote:Well that sucks.

Fortunately business was always "picking up"...

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:06 am

robinson46176 wrote:Actually that statement is quite wrong. I have been relubing sealed ball bearing assemblies both for myself and professionally since around 1972. Thousands and thousands of them. Often 50 to 100 a week. We operated a very busy vac shop for over 20 years as part of our businesses until we retired. Many vac bearings are around the size of the SS quill bearings and reach quite high RPM's (router speeds). They run in dirty environments, often for long periods at a time in commercial applications. We had special equipment for pressure lubing many of them and simple procedures for others like very small ones or odd sizes in the smallish ones. All of the larger ones will fit in a pressure lube unit. I also relubed hundreds of sealed ball bearings used in farm equipment and before anyone says farm equipment bearings are not the same, some are not but some are super critical.
Any relube must be done properly and relubing does NOT tighten up a worn bearing. It might quiet it down but it is still worn.
For the average woodworker (or handyman) the simplest procedure is using heat. Buy a can of electric motor grease. Then you clean the bearing outside until it is spotless. Place it on a common light bulb until it is pretty much too hot to hold for any time then poke it down in the grease and be sure it is covered completely. As the hot bearing cools it will suck the heat softened grease around the bearing in past the seals and you are done. It should spin well by hand (not freely though) and should turn smoothly.
My wife actually got quite good at most of them that didn't need opening up. I have opened up many of them by removing the side shields and cleaning the inside, lubing them and reinstalling the seals. It isn't all that hard on most but can be really tedious in little tiny bearings. It generally isn't something that most without experience will want to try. I do NOT recommend that most people use a torch to heat the bearing as the flame can burn the seals. You can however heat a heavy metal plate with the torch and lay the bearing on the hot steel plate to warm it.
Again, a worn bearing is still a worn bearing and I wouldn't waste my time putting a worn relubed bearing in a Shopsmith quill. If however the bearings are just dry it will cure them as well as a new bearing. It can also maybe keep you working until you can buy new bearings if you are in a production situation. Maybe you have dry bearings on other equipment.
I currently am saving (I save a lot of stuff) any Shopsmith drive sleeve bearings I change out because they will fit the quill spindles on my King Kutter 5' finish mower and it does not care if they are a little loose.
Drive sleeve bearings are a little more forgiving of a minor amount of wear than quill bearings as long as they have plenty of lube in them.
I assume that most guys making a full restoration are just going to order a full set of new bearings and install them and that is fine but don't discard the old ones if not badly worn. Clean them, lube them, put them in a clean bag and label them well. Someday you might be very glad to have one when a bearing comes apart right in the middle of something. Most bearings fail on the weekends you know...
BTW, my initial training on relubing bearings was by the Hoover Company.

I did not think he was ready to pull the bearings off their shafts(yet). Your experience is NOT typical. I assume it was NOT "Hoover Ball Bearing" that provided your training!:D

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:33 am

JPG40504 wrote:I did not think he was ready to pull the bearings off their shafts(yet). Your experience is NOT typical. I assume it was NOT "Hoover Ball Bearing" that provided your training!:D

Sorry but I would never presume to withhold knowledge I have, based on whether or not I thought a reader is "ready" or not. I have done a few million things in my life that others might have thought I was not ready for. I believe that my life has been much fuller than average because of my drive to always be learning about and trying new things.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:01 am

robinson46176 wrote:Sorry but I would never presume to withhold knowledge I have, based on whether or not I thought a reader is "ready" or not. I have done a few million things in my life that others might have thought I was not ready for. I believe that my life has been much fuller than average because of my drive to always be learning about and trying new things.

I Agree. True for 'US'. Not so much so (sadly) for SO MANY OTHERS!;)

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:45 pm

nreish wrote:I inherited a 1958 Mark V from my grandfather and am in the process of restoring it back to operating condition. Replacing the belts, power cord, and switch were an obvious first start. I am concerned about the bearings in the motor and the various drive shafts. They all turn but not exactly freely. The SS has not been run in ~35 years but seems in pretty good shape. Any advice on how to get them to move smoothly. Can they be lubricated?

Any other general advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Nathan

Hi, Nathan! - Welcome to the Forum! I see you have been given good answers to your bearing questions, but I have another question for you. Sorry, but I'm kinda focused on this issue lately.

When you replaced the drive belt, was there a name printed on the outside of the belt? Was the outside edge of the belt flat, or did it have a crowned outside surface?

By the way - would you consider going to the "User CP" and post the vicinity of your location? You can do so in the signature block