Blowing fuse

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Thu May 07, 2009 12:37 pm

SOUNDS like you need to replace some bearings, to make it run quieter. Don't forget to regrease the upper wheel bearing to.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:01 pm

putttn wrote:Thanks Ed. I'll try that tonight. How do I check the draw Amps wise? I have a digital voltmeter I used when I owned my Harley. It is a digital unit from Radioshack.

Puttn
Most multimeter type units only go up to 10 amps, (not enough for our purposes) there are clamp accessories that offer a 10x reduction (meaning you can measure up to 100 amps) that you can get for most multimeters.
However they do cost. Perhaps a neighbor/friend has one. You can buy multimeters that have the clamp on amperage tongs installed (harbor freight has a cheap one) that would work.
If you can't come up with a multimeter that will measure the amperage try another circuit, thus eliminating the plug, circuit wiring, breaker and etc.

If the breaker does trip then the problem is in fact in SS, bandsaw or line cord. You said they don't feel warm, did you let the SS run for a while? It will take time to heat of the cord or a bad plug. If they don't get warm then you pretty much eliminated them. Now try to cut some wood perhaps feeding it faster than normal to see if you can bog the machine down and blow the breaker. If this is hard to do or if the breaker simply won't blow then you eliminated the SS. That leaves the Bandsaw and connector. Turning it over by hand should tell you something.

By the way do you have any other SPT (jointer or jigsaw etc)? Mount one of them if you do. That might eliminate the bandsaw.

I still think the SS is drawing too much amperage to begin with and the bandsaw is putting it over the edge. My guess a voltage drop due to bad connection between the motor and breaker, that includes the SS switch, all internal connections, line cord, plug, wall receptacle, loose wires on it, wires themselves, loose connection to breaker. Lastly your SS motor going south.

You simply need to begin to eliminate things to find the problem
Best to you and don't get shocked!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu May 07, 2009 2:03 pm

Adding to Ed's suggestions: Connect the multimeter to the same receptacle as the SS(AC VOLTS > 150V. Note the voltage with the SS OFF.

Start the SS only. Observe the meter reading with the SS running(no load). It should NOT be significantly lower than the SS off reading.

Connect the BS and repeat. If the voltage is still about what it was with the SS off, the BS is the most likely culprit(lubrication).

We have not heard from you as to the SS speed setting when you are starting the SS. It needs to be SLOW.

The bandsaw should not be run above C(according to MY 50 yr old speed chart). If run faster I would expect it REALLY SCREAM!(???)

putttn · Post by **putttn** » Thu May 07, 2009 3:21 pm

Thanks for all the help fellas. I'll see if the voltmeter I got from Radio Shack will work. I may be running the bandsaw too fast too. I don't have any other SPT's so I can't try that. I haven't tried to cut anything but I will be tonight and will try some other circuits to see if that trips anything.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:31 pm

As someone said breakers "can" get weak and trip easy. Also it is not uncommon for the screws in the breaker box to loosen up and that can add resistance. That is a job for someone with an electrical background (electrician) or technician. A good friend of mine once had a problem with lights dimming and when I checked his breaker box nearly half of the screws were somewhat to seriously loose. He had several circuits at their limit and they were running warm at times. Not hot, just warm. The constant heating and cooling over time can cause the connections to get a little loose. He had one connection that was so loose that I am surprised that it was not arcing.
That was all it took to cure his dimming problem.
I couldn't help him with his wife problem...

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu May 07, 2009 7:30 pm

robinson46176 wrote:As someone said breakers "can" get weak and trip easy. Also it is not uncommon for the screws in the breaker box to loosen up and that can add resistance. That is a job for someone with an electrical background (electrician) or technician. A good friend of mine once had a problem with lights dimming and when I checked his breaker box nearly half of the screws were somewhat to seriously loose. He had several circuits at their limit and they were running warm at times. Not hot, just warm. The constant heating and cooling over time can cause the connections to get a little loose. He had one connection that was so loose that I am surprised that it was not arcing.
That was all it took to cure his dimming problem.
I couldn't help him with his wife problem...

Were any of those wires aluminum or copper clad aluminum?(accident waiting to happen).

putttn · Post by **putttn** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:58 pm

Latest update. I cranked up the SS and cut some stock with circular saw...no problems. I then REDUCED THE SPEED to about "D" and engaged the bandsaw. No problems. Cut some more stock, this time with the bandsaw and everything went fine. Evidently the speed I had set last night had been too high for it to sustain that speed.
Would running the bandsaw at that high speed trip the 20 amp breaker? I wonder why running the circular blade at high speed wouldn't trip the breaker but running the bandsaw at high speed would? Still have the screetch so I'm going to look at the bandsaw tuneup video I have and see if I can take care of that screetch and at the same time become more familar with the bandsaw.

rkh2 · Post by **rkh2** » Thu May 07, 2009 10:47 pm

I suspect that running your bandsaw at higher rpms than what it is designed for may have been the cause of tripping your breaker. Bandsaws are designed to run at slower rpm's probably with D being the maximum on the shopsmith speed control. If you look at chapter 14 in the PTWFE book, it explains the speeds you should use depending on the blade you are using and also the material you are cutting. I would think that also at a higher speed than recommended, you could throw the blade or break it and things could go flying. It was emphasized at a couple of the TA's I went to that before you couple the bandsaw up to the motor, run the speed down to the lowest setting first.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:33 am

putttn wrote:Latest update. I cranked up the SS and cut some stock with circular saw...no problems. I then REDUCED THE SPEED to about "D" and engaged the bandsaw. No problems. Cut some more stock, this time with the bandsaw and everything went fine. Evidently the speed I had set last night had been too high for it to sustain that speed.
Would running the bandsaw at that high speed trip the 20 amp breaker? I wonder why running the circular blade at high speed wouldn't trip the breaker but running the bandsaw at high speed would? Still have the screetch so I'm going to look at the bandsaw tuneup video I have and see if I can take care of that screetch and at the same time become more familar with the bandsaw.

I am pleased that you are up and running but I am having some difficulty with the conclusions. Your headstock should be able to start, without kicking the breaker, with the bandsaw connected.

For safety reasons, you should not run the bandsaw at the higher speeds but the headstock is not the reason. This is a safety limitation regarding the probability of the band saw throwing a blade at higher speeds.

I believe you are operating very close to a current limit in your primary 115 vac power distribution system.

The Shopsmith should operate normally, without tripping a breaker, on a 15amp breaker with a 14ga home run (connection from the wall outlet to the main breaker panel). Ideally, that would be replaced with 12ga wire and a 20amp breaker. You do not seem to be able to do this and I believe you should resolve that issue as a priority.

Are you certain that there is not some other item drawing current along with your Shopsmith on this line?

Let's talk about your screeching bearings in a separate thread but as a precursor let me ask one question. Without making any changes, check to see which bearings are spinning. When you are NOT CUTTING only one bearing should be moving]The change in red is to correct an error that I hope everyone caught.. Use of a 30amp breaker and 12ga wire is a code violation in most parts of the country if not every where. Thank you Ed and JPG for the sharp eye.
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putttn · Post by **putttn** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:53 am

I started the headstock with the bandsaw attached at one of the highest speeds and cranked the speed down to D. Everything worked fine. However, if I started it set at a high speed and let it "crank up" to that speed it then blew once it got to the highest speed. Not a smart thing to do now that I've read these posts. I did some cutting last night and at D speed everything went fine.
The only other things I have on that circuit are a portable telephone, some shop lights and the SS. Ran the circlular blade and all was ok.

I'm going to jump into the screetching sound. I did feel the bandsaw blade after doing some small cuts and it was not hot to the touch, not cold but just a mild temp to the touch. Don't know if that helps.
I've never taken the blade off so will go through video on that. Didn't get a manual when I got the saw.