Level Way tubes(B)

[JPG]

This thread continues the reassembly and the leveling of the way tubes on a disassembled Mark V.

[ATTACH]5125[/ATTACH]

While watching the level from above,(adjust the leveling screw from below). If necessary, push down on the tie bar so both sides bottom against the end casting and leveling screw.

[ATTACH]5126[/ATTACH]

This shows the parts of the upper way tube lock and their order of assembly. Slide the two sleeves(one inside the other) and the spring over the end of the lock 'bolt'.

[ATTACH]5127[/ATTACH]

While holding the lock handle and cylindrically shaped 'nut' as shown, push the bolt into the nut and run it into the nut. Open and close the lock handle and adjust the bolt until the lock just bottoms out into the socket on the tie bar. Add 1/4 turn tighter. IMHO That is enough. Any tighter stresses the lock cam(handle).

While doing so, notice any motion of the tie bar either up & down or side to side. If up/down motion is observed, loosen the two tie bar set screws and allow the tie bar to 'float' while setting the lock. If side to side motion is observed, loosen both set screws in the OTHER end of the way tube and allow the tubes to 'float' while setting the lock. With the lock 'set', tighten the set screws just loosened. Securely tighten the 'other end' set screws. Snug the tie bar set screws.

Recheck the level. The tubes both bench and way should be level at both ends (4 locations). Readjust the lock bolt to just bottom plus 1/4 turn. Notice any movement of the tie bar when locking and repeat the steps above to eliminate it. It is this alignment of the four tubes which provides the rigidity of the base and non varying alignment end to end.



This thread is one of several which illustrate a method for reassembling a Mark V. Please post a reply and inform me of any errors or confusion. They WILL be fixed!

This thread was linked to from https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3807

[dusty]

I guess that it must go without saying that the four feet of this Mark V are resting firmly on a relatively level surface as a requisite for this leveling process. If not, leveling the tubes will actually put the entire assembly in stress.

Just how level is level enough?

Do the bench tubes need to be as precisely leveled as do the way tubes?

Do the tubes need to be leveled from end to end the same as from infeed to outfeed?

BTW, those tubes look to be is fantastic condition. Good job.

[JPG]

I guess that it must go without saying that the four feet of this Mark V are resting firmly on a relatively level surface as a requisite for this leveling process. If not, leveling the tubes will actually put the entire assembly in stress.

Just how level is level enough?

Do the bench tubes need to be as precisely leveled as do the way tubes?

Do the tubes need to be leveled from end to end the same as from infeed to outfeed?

BTW, those tubes look to be is fantastic condition. Good job.

The whole purpose of all this 'leveling' is to align the way tubes so that they are not 'twisted'. We start with the bench tubes to make sure THEY are not twisted. If they were twisted when sitting on flat(not necessarily level) surface the adjustment to the way tubes would also be compensating for bench tube variation. The procedure included the leveling of the bench tubes by shimming.(If it is not there, it will be!)(I intended for it TO be!).

What we are trying to establish is that the plane defined by the bench tubes is parallel to a similar plane defined by the way tubes(parallel from 'front to back', not necessarily from end to end). Thus the 'height' MAY vary from end to end, but NOT front to back(infeed to outfeed). We want the headstock and carriage to always be coplaner with each other regardless of their relative positions along the way tubes. If the tubes were 'twisted', the head stock would be slanted more at the left end than the table at the right end.

At this point, the 'legs' have yet to be attached! the leveling is done strictly between tubes to tubes. We level the bench tubes so as to use the spirit level on the way tubes. If I had a Wixey or a Beall or any digital +-0.1° level device we could merely set them to the same angle. They DO need to be the same angle on both ends or a twist would be indicated.

Since there is no (reasonable) way to adjust the legs, the setting of all this without the legs is adequate. If doing it WITH the legs attached, the first step would to level the bench tubes by shimming the legs!

Surprisingly the tubes were in pretty decent shape when I picked this animal up. I cannot say that for most everything else. I believe the original owner took VERY GOOD care of it, but the last previous owner did NOT. FYI the speed would increase VERY slowly from slow to fast. The motor(floating) sheave would slide on the motor shaft VERY reluctantly. You would not believe the 'crud' on that shaft. Considerable force was required to remove the pulley from the motor shaft. I realized this when I picked it up and he insisted I 'try it out'. I am not sure, but I do not think he realized it was NOT responding 'normally'. After 'trying it out" I expected to find 'stickey' sheaves.

I did overnight the tubes in evaporust and then a light 'polishing'. Again I was more concerned with the rust inside the tube than the outside(the insides are NOT plated like the outside). The bench tubes did have a bit of very light rust 'spots'. These later plated tubes do NOT polish up as nice as the non plated 10E/R tubes. These plated ones like to retain the scratches from courser abrading.

P.S. The BENCH tube leveling was done in the previous thread of this 'sequence'. "Level Way tubes(A)."

[keakap]

...tighten the 'other end' set screws.

Unfortunately, on my vintage machine those can be tightened only in drill press mode. Which, of course, involves moving everything that was just moved into alignment while some parts are still loose...

I'm missing something.

I noticed, too, that when Nick did the alignment in the Lift Assist Sawdust Session he left at least one of the way tube set screws loose- for good.
Curious, eh?

[dusty]

Unfortunately, on my vintage machine those can be tightened only in drill press mode. Which, of course, involves moving everything that was just moved into alignment while some parts are still loose...

I'm missing something.

I noticed, too, that when Nick did the alignment in the Lift Assist Sawdust Session he left at least one of the way tube set screws loose- for good.
Curious, eh?

I don't recall that he left it loose - for good. He left it loose so that it could be turned to compensate for any non-parallelism between thubes if that should exist. I believe it later is secured.

[billmayo]

I don't recall that he left it loose - for good. He left it loose so that it could be turned to compensate for any non-parallelism between thubes if that should exist. I believe it later is secured.

Very true. However having parallelism with the way tubes still allows bent way tubes and can make table alignment a bear of a job if even possible some of the times. I am finding over 50% of the way tubes that I have have cleaned and polished have been bent at different points on the way tubes. The way tubes with a more severe bend are cut into SHORTY and MINI way tubes. I can only guess as to why the way tubes get bent in various degrees and at different places.

I find that marking the high point on each bent bench tube (not very many found) and by placing the mark on the outside (3:00 & 9:00) of the frame, I am able to reuse all the bench tubes.

I collect all the 10E/10ER way tubes (heavy ones, without shipping) I can find as I have not found a single bend tube among them. They clean up much better than the Mark V tubes and helps stabilize any operation where the way tubes can flex.

[Stitch]

Does this mean that if I buy a used Shopsmith I should be skeptical of the tubes OR should I just order new tubes. Are the new Power Pro tubes any different?

[billmayo]

Does this mean that if I buy a used Shopsmith I should be skeptical of the tubes OR should I just order new tubes. Are the new Power Pro tubes any different?

I would believe any new way tubes, PowerPro or as replacements would come from the same parts bin or supplier. It can depend on how much precision/accuracy you want from your Shopsmith and your work product. I recommend checking what you have currently before buying any replacement parts. If your table alignments are within Shopsmiths and/or your specifications, then I would not be concerned about the way tubes or frame alignments.

I used a Shopsmith frame for years that fell off the back of a pickup before replacing the way tubes. The headstock would only slide about 12" at one end before binding tight. I tried rotating one or both way tubes several times without any success. I got the way tubes to where the carriage would still slide so the headstock stayed at that end. This met my requirements at that time.

[keakap]

I don't recall that he left it loose - for good. He left it loose so that it could be turned to compensate for any non-parallelism between thubes if that should exist. I believe it later is secured.

He may have. Off camera.

[keakap]

Very true. However having parallelism with the way tubes still allows bent way tubes and can make table alignment a bear of a job if even possible some of the times. I am finding over 50% of the way tubes that I have have cleaned and polished have been bent at different points on the way tubes. The way tubes with a more severe bend are cut into SHORTY and MINI way tubes. I can only guess as to why the way tubes get bent in various degrees and at different places.

Fascinating. This could essplane why my digital level reads differently at various points along the way tubes, even with zero load on them.
I know they're not straight (thanks mostly to Nick's rotating shtick) but the varying level readings were giving me a headache. I expected a hollow, not a corduroy road.

The question this raises is whether to buy new ones (and hope they are not bent), buy some from eBay (which come with a full 50% chance of being bent), look for used 10E/10ER tubes (which feature an excellent chance of being straight), or making do (some would say do-do) with the present units.