Custom main tabletop?

[wood4fun]

I've debated upgrading to the 520, browsed the Shopsmith infeed and outfeed table products, and read all of the Shopsmith forums' infeed/outfeed table threads. You guys have provided a lot of great ideas and implementations out there, especially Nick's pivoting triangle-frame outfeed...a real beaut.

So, I was looking at my 500 table, contemplating which of the mods described made the most sense for the woodworking I do, when I had a different idea. So tell me whether you guys think this is crazy, and how crazy it is.

What we're after, in one form or another is a big honkin' tablesaw table on a shopsmith, with lots of infeed, outfeed, and crosscutting reach in all directions. And we sure don't want to make any more adjustments every time we move the blade or the table -- we want all of this extra reach to track with the main table through all of its twists and turns.

And we've all seen a few beautiful commercial sleds with highly functional t-slots embedded in wooden bases.

So let's say we peeled the 500 tabletop casting off where it's bolted on and stared at our shopsmith for a while, and went out to HD and bought a 2'x4' piece of 3/4" plywood or made a really straight square surface of 3/4" wood (or bigger than 2'x4' if we had a stronger lunatic streak and long enough arms) and made ourselves a bigger wooden main tabletop. And say we routed in some of those longer and cheaper (due to odd pricing) t-slots or u-slots you discovered, and routed in a spot for the removable tablesaw insert, and we threw on our favorite fence (shopsmith, incra, or one of those traditional tablesaw fences) and stood back. And if we used it for a while and realized that the 4 corners weren't really essential, say we rounded them off a bunch to reduce weight and improve our reach.

What would we see? Would we have something that is safe and structurally sound? Would we have something that balances more infeed and outfeed room without extra parts and widgets? Would we have something that is dimensionally accurate enough to do reasonable work? Would we have done it without permanently defacing our Shopsmith?

I guess maybe I'm just too cheap to buy a 520 table and all the upgrade items needed to switch, when my 500 carriage and trunion are still rolling fine. But I'd like the safety upgrade of a table twice as big and with T-slots so sleds don't continue to pop up at me on the infeed side as they've done to some of you. And I'd like to be able to move the rip fence smoothly away from the blade without encountering main and extension table width limitations. And I bought the 500 29 yrs ago because I like to make things myself.

So what are the biggest flaws and are they necessarily fatal for a wooden main tabletop. Note, I'm not trying to pick on Shopsmith or the design. They've solved all this, but at an upgrade price that I can't justify given college savings priorities for the kids. Nor is a good tablesaw in the cards since there's no room or money for it. I drool over the 520, but it's not going to happen, and I'd still need to build infeed/outfeed solutions along with everyone else.

Has it been done? Did anyone live to talk about it? Serious regrets? Sitting on a shelf unused?

-w4f

[dusty]

Don't forget - you'll need two overhead cranes and a 440 volt 3 phase power panel put in. This is not going to be an ordinary crafter's work shop. This shop is going to have a big honkin table saw and all the peripherals that go with it.

This place will make Norm Abrams envious. We are all through messing around in a small, neat and affordable work shop built around a highly efficient multi purpose Shopsmith Mark V. We are going to have a table saw with a big honkin, super flat work surface with all kinds of t-track inlaid.

[hudsonmiller]

I've also been pondering the table top issues you describe. I've given up and bought a Grizzly G0691. Understand you don't have the cash flow to solve the problem with the size hammer I used but here is what I just couldn't overcome.

1. The top (if mounted to the sliding posts) will NEVER be rotationally stable with regard to the blade unless you pin it (as designed) to the auxilliary table in either end using the extension tubes.

2. Of course once you pin it then you have to fidget with the whole mess to raise/lower or tilt the blade.

3. The kerf will never be as stable in your table top as it is in a stand alone table saw because the quill is designed to move and the rubber stop between the headstock and the sliding table base isn't consistent.

So - best I can come up with is to design a flexible shaft between the headstock and maybe an old circular saw. Mount the table in both ends of the shopsmith aux mounting fixtures and bolt the circular saw to the underside of your table top.

My recommendation - slow down and get out of production mode - take the time to set up the Shopsmith so it's stiff, and build some sort of aux table to tide you over until you save up or sell enough stuff that you can afford something different.

[Ed in Tampa]

First off many many excellent pieces have been made on saws with wooden table tops. So we know that aspect is feasible.

However I think we need to reexamine the idea of why we need a huge work surface. I visit many cabinet shops and many had a saw buried in a huge 16 foot wide by 8 foot long table top. Purpose, to be able to cut sheet goods.

However most cabinets shops have learned and eventually most Shopsmithers do also that handling huge pieces of sheet goods is not fun no matter how much table space you have. Most cabinet shops have either switched to panel saws, slidding table or the latest move to guided saw systems.

Personally since I have learned not to try to man handle full sheet stock. Most of the use of the shopsmith is for ripping or crosscutting with crosscut sled. I rarely if ever use much more than my main table and an aux table with one or two floating in between. What I need is more infeed and outfeed for ripping long boards. Having two feet in front of the blade and 2 or 3 feet behind the blade would be great. So that aspect of your idea sounds great. So your idea making the SS better is at ripping is fantastic.

However the one thing you do need when your ripping is a perfectly aligned fence. That is the obstacle I see to your plan. How are you going to attach a fence and keep it aligned to the blade while being adjustable?

[dusty]

hudsonmiller has made an excellent suggestion: get out of the production mode. The Mark V is, for the most part, not a production machine. It performs well when being tasked to do that which it was designed to do.

If you need a larger work surface, you can get that by using the extensions along with a reasonably sized infeed and/or outfeed table.

What you must be careful of is extending the table outward beyond the foot print of the standard Shopsmith table configurations. I know because I have tried.

What happens is the outboard weight produces stresses on the carriage and the vertical support members that go through the carriage. When this happens, it becomes nearly impossible to adjust table height. For that reason, I just don't do it anymore.

I have abandoned nearly all of my efforts to create an enlarged work surface that is part of the Mark V.

However, I have not abandoned my efforts to develop methods whereby I have a larger work surface. Momentarily, I have resolved that issue by using my Crafter's Station as a roll around, adjustable table top that can be adjusted to match the Mark V exactly.

Notice, I said momentarily.

My long term objective is to modify my work bench, which is located about 3' away from the Mark V on the outfeed side of the Mark V. The modification that I am attempting to develop is an "adjustable height bench top" that will become my large outfeed table (when I need it).

I am working on some sort of scissor arrangement that will allow me to raise and lower the bench top at will. It must not take up floor space. It must remain within the boundaries of the existing work bench. It must be adjustable under vertical load.

There are many commercial rigs out there that fit the bill but I am NOT INTO BUYING WHAT I CAN MAKE.

I got the idea one day when I had my smaller Black and Decker Workmate sitting on the work bench. I noticed that it almost matched the Mark V table height but not quite.

Good luck on resolving your shop problems. Please keep us posted.

[wood4fun]

Dusty,
Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Did I misunderstand the purpose of the larger 520 table, and its rails and floating tables, and larger extension tables, and the couple of extra feet of outfeed table, etc? I interpreted those as an attempt to increase the side of the work surface that supports the wood, and by fences, sleds and knives, guides it past the blade. That's all I meant by "big honkin' table." When I look at all your 520 pictures on these forums, and then look at the puny 500 table, the 520 screams "big honkin' table" to me, in a good way.

I'm not seeking a more powerful tool. The shopsmith has been plenty ample for all these years and that hasn't changed in my shop. You could probably fit my house in Norm's shop, so I appreciate the trim size of the Shopsmith. And I didn't invent the desirability of t-slots or u-slots; they consume a lot of discussion on these forums.

I do worry about the safety of putting longer boards across my 500 table without more support, but have the same issues with roller stands and adjustables that need to be readjusted constantly as everyone else. It might be great to have one of those tablesaws that stops when your finger touches the blade, but that's not going to happen anytime soon in my shop. And a custom top might give me more design freedom on a dust-collecting blade enclosure that's better than my 500 setup, though there are lots of design trades to be sure.

So, now that you've successfully put me on the defensive (nice welcome to the forum, man ), and now that I've clarified my earnest genuine pure intent, what do you and others know about, and think of, this idea?

-w4f

[robinson46176]

This was my solution until I got my Ridgid TS-3650.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~robinson999/workshop/sawtable.html
I still have this saw but it is still in the old shop.

[wood4fun]

All -

Thanks for your replies. Agreed on sheetgoods...I'm not doing any 8x4 sheets (I said crazy, not insane). But I am doing ripping and crosscutting of 7ftx9" boards, and that does require support.

I guess the question is whether you build a support surface up by aggregating interconnected bits and pieces, or take away everything that you don't need from a large planar surface. The trade seems to be integral strength of one monolithic chunk at the expense of flexibility of many adjustable bits. (and that flexibility also conserves space)

Appreciate your thoughts.
-w4f

[BigEd]

I am in the same boat as "w4f".

I work around the limitations in somewhat the same fashion as Francis. I have a small 10" Delta bench saw butted against the end of my work bench which I use as the outfeed and when necessary use rolling stands to act as the infeed.

That said, I do most crosscutting on a radial arm saw.

I see a couple of problems with fabricating a larger main table head on the 500. The first is how the increased size would impact the ability to easily reach the on and off switch. The second is how this would limit the tilt on the saw top to make angled cuts on the ends of items.

Additionally, this would be fairly heavy when adjusting depth of cut.

Just something to ponder...

[dusty]

[quote="wood4fun"]Dusty,
Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

Did I misunderstand the purpose of the larger 520 table, and its rails and floating tables, and larger extension tables, and the couple of extra feet of outfeed table, etc? I interpreted those as an attempt to increase the side of the work surface that supports the wood, and by fences, sleds and knives, guides it past the blade. That's all I meant by "big honkin' table." When I look at all your 520 pictures on these forums, and then look at the puny 500 table, the 520 screams "big honkin' table" to me, in a good way.

I'm not seeking a more powerful tool. The shopsmith has been plenty ample for all these years and that hasn't changed in my shop. You could probably fit my house in Norm's shop, so I appreciate the trim size of the Shopsmith. And I didn't invent the desirability of t-slots or u-slots]

I must apologize not you. I was not at the least offended but maybe you were. I meant nothing by using the term "big honkin' table" except to express an understanding that you feel a need for more support space. All of us who rely on a Shopsmith have that feeling of need with the possible exception of those who never attempt to build anything large (like requires the use of sheet goods).

Having adequate support of your materials (including the cutoffs) is extremely important. Not having support and control of those cutoffs (even small ones) can lead to absolute disaster in a shop (especially a small shop). A tiny piece of wood that gets bound between the blade and fence and becomes a projectile will teach that to all observers in short order.

Please note that I am still seeking a way to create larger work surfaces around my Mark V. I just don't try (anymore) to enlarge the table surface itself. I am not content to use auxiliary support table surfaces (like my Crafter's Station).

I do hope that I have not treated you so rudely, as a new comer to the forum, that you will hesitate to return. I need to chose my words more carefully (except when communicating with some of the more hardened old fogies that hang here). Please accept my apology and come back for more.