Jointech and Box Joints

[jimhart]

I've been using the Jointech on my SS for about 10 years or so and have made a couple hundred box joints on it.

The spacing on the templates has to exactly match the diameter of the bit. Tweaking and nudging to make up for a bit that doesn't match the template is chasing your tail. Dusty is on the nose with this.

The table saw type box joint jig that uses a pin to create consistent spacing has zero relevance to your situation.

I switched over to a Leigh D4R a couple of years ago to cut dovetails. Found out the hard way that if the collars and bit are the exact right size everything is a piece of cake. If they're not, no amount of tweaking will make the joints fit the way you expect them to. Same thing with your box joint.

The lead screw for fine adjustments works great for getting the cursor right on the template line if your hand isn't steady enough to nail it. Using it to try to consistently miss the template line........

Jim

[tdubnik]

The spacing on the templates has to exactly match the diameter of the bit. Tweaking and nudging to make up for a bit that doesn't match the template is chasing your tail. Dusty is on the nose with this.

..................

The lead screw for fine adjustments works great for getting the cursor right on the template line if your hand isn't steady enough to nail it. Using it to try to consistently miss the template line........

Jim

I must not be expressing myself well. I understand that the Jointech template and the router bit must match for that perfect joint. But that said, there are already templates for different sized bits. For example there templates for 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" box joints. So IF you have a template that matches your bit you should be able to create a good joint. The problem is that there is currently no template for a bit that measures .255".

I am NOT talking about using the lead screw to consistently miss the template when I cut box joints. I am talking about CREATING A NEW template for a bit that measures .255. IF I can successfully do this, there is no reason I can't get a perfect joint with my existing bit.

I know that I am going WAY overboard here in persuing this but I've been there before. I just don't always like to work within someone elses box.

[dusty]

[quote="tdubnik"]I must not be expressing myself well. I understand that the Jointech template and the router bit must match for that perfect joint. But that said, there are already templates for different sized bits. For example there templates for 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" box joints. So IF you have a template that matches your bit you should be able to create a good joint. The problem is that there is currently no template for a bit that measures .255".

I am NOT talking about using the lead screw to consistently miss the template when I cut box joints. I am talking about CREATING A NEW template for a bit that measures .255. IF I can successfully do this, there is no reason I can't get a perfect joint with my existing bit.

I know that I am going WAY overboard here in persuing this but I've been there before. I just don't always like to work within someone elses box.]

You are absolutely correct. If you have a bit that cuts .255" tails, all you have to do is create a template that shows you where to position the next tail (that is, create a pin that is .255" displaced from the previous).

This is exactly what the Incra and Jointech templates do. However, these templates have been created with the assumption that the bit will be exactly of the correct dimension.

[jimhart]

You Are Expressing Yourself Perfectly. If You Feel Its Time Better Spent To Make A .255 Template Than To Go Out And Buy A .250 Router Bit, Then Knock Yourself Out.

[reible]

Hi,

Haven't checked in here for a while but I'm here tonight and this thread caught my attention.

Have a router bit that is .005 over sized is a bit of a wonder to me. This sort of bit would normally have a spec of +.0000, meaning .250 is the largest it would ever be. The second part would be -.003 or maybe -.004 and I guess it might even be -.005, so .247 or .248 would be more typical. I don't know what Freud uses as specks but if you go to there web site they might tell you if not I'm sure an email to them could get you this information.

So, over size might be a problem with the router, such as run-out. That could be typical of either bad bearings or some collet issue. You might want to give the collet a cleaning, look for burrs or dust.

Even the bit could have a dirty shank or burr so check that too. Excessive feed rate could be a problem as well but you should feel the excessive vibration when that happens.

So what is the Jointech position on oversize bits? Undersize bits? Check page 13 in the manual.

As for making a template.... The design of the system is such that when you move you always move in 1/32" steps. If the dimension is place on a template you don't have to be on the exact point because as you lock it in place it moves you to the exact 1/32 position (with in .001). If you were to make a template it will not lock in to your marks but only the nearest 1/32".

I guess if you are not in a hurry you could make a table that would let you make the cuts by dialing in increments. It would be a matter of moving to the new location, locking, adding .005, making the cut, rezeroing, moving, locking, adding .010 and so on (I think you would need to do this for each and every move but its late so maybe I'm not thinking as clearly as I should??)

Might be a good time to dig out a cad program and set it to lock on 1/32" steps, as soon as you do a few it should be come clear how this has to work. Then go back and visit the idea of making a template as I mentioned just above to see if that could be done (change to .001" snap from the 1/32")

Ed

[tdubnik]

Hi,


As for making a template.... The design of the system is such that when you move you always move in 1/32" steps. If the dimension is place on a template you don't have to be on the exact point because as you lock it in place it moves you to the exact 1/32 position (with in .001). If you were to make a template it will not lock in to your marks but only the nearest 1/32".

I guess if you are not in a hurry you could make a table that would let you make the cuts by dialing in increments. It would be a matter of moving to the new location, locking, adding .005, making the cut, rezeroing, moving, locking, adding .010 and so on (I think you would need to do this for each and every move but its late so maybe I'm not thinking as clearly as I should??)

Might be a good time to dig out a cad program and set it to lock on 1/32" steps, as soon as you do a few it should be come clear how this has to work. Then go back and visit the idea of making a template as I mentioned just above to see if that could be done (change to .001" snap from the 1/32")

Ed

Ed,

Thank you for your post and for shooting down my idea for a custom template. When I read your post the light bulb in my head went off and I could see that a custom template will not work as I thought. In order for it to work the same as a normal template, my bit would have to be off by a multiple of 1/32". Since this is not the case, I COULD make a custom template but I would have to micro adjust every cut to get it lined up. This did not register until I read your post.

[dusty]

But....you could still make a template that would work. It just would not be as slick as it could be.

What intrigues me is Ed's comment regarding the likelihood that you have a bit that is oversized. Now Ed did mention Freud specification's and maybe you don't have a Freud bit (or even another brand name bit).

This has my curiosity peaked though. I'll probably waste some time today measuring some of my router bits. I do have a few that are not of "Freud Quality".

[dan1999]

THe thing that makes us woodworkers smarter than the avaerage bear is the ability to think outside the box, it is so easy to go just go with the flow and follow someone else's path. It is real ingenuity to come up with original ideas, a new way of doing things that made all the advancements that made up our current technological advancement over the past 50 years. Keep trying new things, the best advancements have come by trial and error.

Just a little philosophy, keep smiling.

Dan:)

[dusty]

THe thing that makes us woodworkers smarter than the avaerage bear is the ability to think outside the box, it is so easy to go just go with the flow and follow someone else's path. It is real ingenuity to come up with original ideas, a new way of doing things that made all the advancements that made up our current technological advancement over the past 50 years. Keep trying new things, the best advancements have come by trial and error.

Just a little philosophy, keep smiling.

Dan:)

Does that cat ever catch the mouse?

[charlese]

Hmmm - Can't resist stating an observation. I may be wrong, but it appears this thread is discussing an expensive jig that is adjustable to the nearest .001", but you can't adjust it that closely from where it was set.

Is this a valid observation?