Custom main tabletop?

[JPG]

PowerPoint here too. So no, nothing fancy or exceedingly cool. :-)

FYI, I use Visio often to do plans. Not the best tool, but better than PowerPoint. But I understand SketchUp is supposed to be pretty good... maybe I'll need to play with that.

RiotNrrd

Power point etc. is good for presentation where key items of interest can be shown without the clutter of details.

Sketch-up is like auto-cad, a drafting tool for explicit documentation of the clutter(details).

It can be used without ALL the details. Perhaps the best of both worlds.

Sketch requires so much front end learning, that learning it to 'play' with is not practical. That said, it IS worth the effort to learn and use productively. I say this from very close to the bottom of the learning curve!

[riot_nrrd]

W4F -

So in my mind, you need to make a couple standoffs for each side in order to give you a flat surface. Then you need the attachment point, then the stablizer itself.

I was thinking that the standoffs and the attachment point would be mounted semi-permanently to the Shopsmith. If you have a bandsaw or a drum sander, you should be able to make a couple standoffs that will attach to the "feet" of the Shopsmith. I'm thinking a 2" square with variable thickness to accomodate the shape of the SS leg. Make one for each corner, plus a simialr "washer" for the inside, so you will have a flat surface there as well.

Then, run a 1" X 2" X 21" strip across the legs. Drill the holes for the t-nuts and install them. Originally, I was thinking to put these at the ends, so they are on top of the 2" pieces, but if you do it about 4" in from each end, the t-nut won't have to be captured inside the two pieces of wood.

Attach the mounting point to ths shopsmith. First, glue up the attachment point and the standoffs together, making sure that they align correctly (clean fit agains the SS legs). Once that is done, clamp it to the SS leg, then drill through the attachment point and the standfoffs, through the leg of the SS. Countersink it. Then run a bolt though each end: Bolt, metal washer, attachment point, standoff, SS, wooden "washer," metal washer, nut.

The, make the stabilizer. Cut a 1" X 2" X 36" piece, line it up with some dowel centers, then drill the holes. You might want to install t-nuts on this piece too to increase the stability and eliminate any slack - not sure.

I showed feet in the orignal drawing, so if you want, install some adjustable feet so you can tweak it for stability. Or if it is just for safety, you probalby don't need the feet.

Now, just line the stablizer up and install it with some knobs with threaded inserts. When you want it off, unscrew the knobs and take it off. Since it's job is not to carry the load so much as it is to keep the thing from falling over, I don't think it has to be super strong - just rigid.

See attached illustration - not to scale, but you'll get the idea.

[wood4fun]

RiotNrrd,
Thanks. Your explanation and excellent drawing helps a lot. Now I understand. So the attachment to the Shopsmith base goes on once, and the outrigger goes on or comes off easily as needed. You're shaping the attachment inside/outside to match the curvy part of the Shopsmith base, so you can sandwhich it together and you're drilling thru the base to hold the sandwhich together.

I showed feet in the orignal drawing, so if you want, install some adjustable feet so you can tweak it for stability.

This comment about the feet and their adjustability got me thinking about the purpose of the outrigger. The purpose is to extend the furthest-back point on the Shopsmith+outrigger's footprint about a foot backward, beneath the outfeed portion of the table, in contact with the floor, to resist toppling. The outrigger(s) will do that well and be easily removable, and the adjustable foot will take up any slack.

Since it's job is not to carry the load so much as it is to keep the thing from falling over, I don't think it has to be super strong - just rigid.

So I started thinking about the outrigger bending, and how this compares with a 520 adjustable leg. The outrigger is at 0 degrees and the leg is at 90 degrees. I started thinking about something in between. The outrigger needs to resist bending (for wood, that means heft & weight) while the leg needs to resist compression (easier for wood, but since the Shopsmith leg is attached to Shopsmith table, and the table adjusts up/down, that means the leg length needs to change and then resist compression, which can also be accomplished in wood, but isn't trivial).

So, what if we had a leg at ~45 degrees, attached to the Shopsmith (not the Custom Table)? I just went down to my shop and jammed a 4' 2x4 at an angle back thru the 2 lower way tubes all the way on the right side. It touches the floor about 18" behind the Shopsmith standard footprint, so it serves the outrigger purpose of extending footprint rearward. (See attached figure) It might slide forward, rather than resisting toppling, so it would need something strong to resist that, without scratching the tubes, e.g., a 3" long 3/4" diameter removable dowel piece, fit into a 1" deep 3/4" diameter hole in the top surface of the 2x4, contacting the back of the back lower way tube. And my 4' 2x4 could be trimmed to about ~40" so it doesn't stick out in front and get in the way. The 2x4 is strongest against bending in this orientation, and takes up only 1.5" along the lower way tubes. We could put one of these on the right and another on the left as with the outriggers.

I think it might work. Not sure if the dowel is hefty enough, or if its hole in the 2x4 would weaken it too much (it's on the compressive side in bending, and only half the width of the 2x4, so that helps. Maybe a collar around the 2x4, like those plastic 2x4 shelf-construction brackets that Lowes sells, with a 1/4" bolt/knob would be better, since it would be additive, rather than removing a lot of wood, and it would distribute the load better?

-w4f

[riot_nrrd]

So this is more like a kickstand than an outrigger.

It looks like that would work. But then you don't get to spend all that money and time over-engineering it!

LOL

IMHO, a 2X4 with a removable dowel pin would probably work just fine. And be much easier to install and remove.

-RiotNrrd

[foxtrapper]

On my bone stock 500 I use the auxiliary tables on each end of the machine to supliment the main table. Biggest pain/difficulty is getting them all to the same height, which isn't that difficult or critical.

I made one of the auxiliary tables myself with some scrap wood doweling I had and a piece of MDF. Works fine, might make another.

I had considered making a replacement main table that was wider. As well a suplimental table to sit on top of the stock one. But, imo, the main table mounts are too wiggly to handle anything of size. A suplimental table would have to go out to the auxiliary tables for support.

Did purchase that nice slide from e-bay. Yes, I could make it myself, but it would take time, which I don't have much of, and cost me nearly the same as simply buying it.

And when it's all said and done, the Shopsmith is a dandy tool, but it's darn light in the table saw arena. It's not powerful, anything but 90 degree cuts are a bear, and it's awkwardly high.

[wood4fun]

foxtrapper,
Thanks for jumping in.

On my bone stock 500 I use the auxiliary tables on each end of the machine to supliment the main table. Biggest pain/difficulty is getting them all to the same height, which isn't that difficult or critical.

How do you line the 3 of them up? (board across? digital level? rulers on the dowel legs as in post #37 [it might be easier to inlay into the wooden dowels than the metal ones + they're "dowel scrap" so experimentation is easier]? other?

I made one of the auxiliary tables myself with some scrap wood doweling I had and a piece of MDF. Works fine, might make another.

Given the ebay traffic, it seems like there's a $60+shipping budget to experiment on DIY alternatives. Is the dowel diameter a snug fit to the casting holes? Does it need to be? Is there a good low-cost source of that diameter dowels (i.e., a large-volume application like closet hanger rod that needs the same dowel diameter) or did you have to turn them down to the right diam on the lathe?

I had considered making a replacement main table that was wider. As well a suplimental table to sit on top of the stock one. But, imo, the main table mounts are too wiggly to handle anything of size. A suplimental table would have to go out to the auxiliary tables for support.

I've come to a similar conclusion and avoided the main table altogether, lowering it out of the way in the Custom Table design. How would you suggest attaching to the auxiliary tables for support to use them for torque to resist table sag? Do you think that the Custom Table design will be structurally solid? (i.e., resist sag) Any other thoughts on strengthening?

Did purchase that nice slide from e-bay. Yes, I could make it myself, but it would take time, which I don't have much of, and cost me nearly the same as simply buying it.

Is this the Shopsmith "Cross-cut sliding table" or one of the Incras?

And when it's all said and done, the Shopsmith is a dandy tool, but it's darn light in the table saw arena. It's not powerful, anything but 90 degree cuts are a bear, and it's awkwardly high.

I really like the horiz and vert drilling, sanding, and lathe features of the 500, but I think the 520 guys are touching a better table-saw elephant at a cost outside my reach. So that's why I'm trying to leave the main table alone and provide a quick-change to "90degree extended tablesaw mode" and back.

-w4f

[riot_nrrd]

Hey W4F - how goes the table design?

Still on the drawing board? Or any pics to share yet?

RiotNrrd

[wood4fun]

RiotNrrd,
I've been wrestling with the tabletop weight issue.

1. The design I was considering was two sheets of 1/2" plywood glued together, with the top actually being panels cut from a 1/2" sheet, snugged up against the sides of T-track and miter channels, creating a continuous top surface, while the bottom was a 1/2" sheet with big areas cut out, to lighten it, where less strength was needed. This weighed in at 37 lbs. in the lightest design I'd come up with. Thus the "skyhook" on the ceiling and ladder brackets on the walls (essentially a crane to lift it on/off the 500). Seemed doable, but heavy and complex.
2. My current favored option is made from a sheet of 3/4" plywood, with routed grooves for the T-track and miter channels, large areas cut out, to lighten it, where less strength is needed, and melamine (~1/4") covering those large cutouts (sitting on a 1/4"x1/4" groove around the periphery like a tablesaw insert), and 1/4" plywood strips glued directly below the miter channels and T-Tracks, an inch wider than them, to reinforce the 3/4" sheet locally where the 1/2" groove is cut out, since the sheet would only be 1/4" thick under those grooves. This option weighs in at 25 lbs, which I should be able to lift on/off manually without the skyhook, or easily with it.
3. A third, obvious option is using a 1" sheet of plywood for option 2, so no need to glue on the 1/4" plywood strips, but then need to thin the 1" sheet further away from the tracks and channels. I need to price out this option to see how a 3/4" sheet + 1/4" sheet compares with a 1" sheet. I'd guess this 3rd option would be slightly stronger due to factory lamination vs. my DIY glue joints.

I think the kickstand is an easy way to get stability, so I'm comfortable with that.

For the extension tables, since I only have one std issue extension table, and need 2 to support the Custom Table, it seemed I'd either have to build or buy one more. Ebay has some which with cost+shipping gives me a ~60 build budget, so build seems the obvious choice. So if I'm going to build one, why not build 2 and then make the top of these custom extension tables a better design for the purpose of attaching to the tabletop. So I started thinking of something like bicycle clipless pedals, or photo tripod quick disconnects. For this custom extension table, it should support, give good torque resistance against tabletop sag, be easy to connect/disconnect, etc. On the other hand, the left one can't crash into the headstock.

All this thinking made me want to make some sawdust, so I got to work on the one part of the extension tables that wasn't likely to change much -- the tubes. I had a piece of wooden closet hanger-rod scrap, so I tried sanding it down a bit (lathe mode on 500) to fit the casting ID. Went a bit too far and putting sawdust back on is tougher, so I'll have to take another crack at that. Maybe that'll warrant a HF digital caliper:D.

Work beckons -- more later.
-w4f

[riot_nrrd]

Why make them extensions at all? In other words, why not make the table and the extensions all one piece? Then you don't have to worry about the QR aspects - just use the built in releases on the SS.

You know, I have been tinkering with square metal tubing from Lowes (trying to build a set of retractable casters)... have you thought about using aluminum square tubing as a support? Not sure if that would make sense in all palces, but it might help in areas where you are prilarily just looking for support.

Riot Nrrd

[wood4fun]

Riot Nrrd,
Thanks, good food for thought.

Ok, so if the extensions were integral with the tabletop, e.g., screwed and glued, then it'd be a lot easier to get that joint to transmit loads and torque without any play, but then they'd stick out a foot or more at 90deg when off the 500, vs being a flat slab against the wall. So it'd probably make sense for them to be hinged solidly, like a card table. But then they'd only transmit torque against table sag if they were not hinged on their inside edges (so outside, front, back edges would be ok for hinges, or maybe their extension table shape wouldn't be square with tabletop, e.g., a diamond). Or maybe the tubes stay locked into the 500 and they fit into 4" deep holes on the bottom of the table, for good torque and load transmission, with gravity and work loads holding the table down.

The square tubing's interesting, or even the Closetmaid shelf standards -- I just put some of them up -- they're rigid and could be used somehow on the tabletop underside for strengthening around the edges (pictureframe would keep them away from the blade). Having square tubing stand on the floor, like the 510/520 legs, would introduce the adjustability issue for height -- not sure how to get front/back/twist alignment with 500 and blade.

-w4f