Quill Pinion Shaft Question on Old Greenie

johnmccrossen · Post by **johnmccrossen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:22 pm

I have a question for the rebuilders. On my recent acquisition (1954 freebie greenie Mark 5), the original headstock was in pieces. When I reinstalled the quill pinion shaft, I noticed the sleeve on the quill lock side stuck out about 1/4" when it was up against the domed washer. On both of my
1960's machines, the sleeve does not stick out. The individual parts seem to match up with the newer units, so the only thing I can think of is that the headstock quill clamp casting might be thicker. I see no reason it won't work like this but was wondering about it. Any comments appreciated. Thanks, John McCrossen

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This domed washer is a solid steel washer vs the stamped domed washers
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Sticking out ?
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Not sticking out!
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Not sticking out here either!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:47 pm

I assume the sleeve is stopping against the domed washer which IS against the internal casting ear as shown in your pix.

I assume the sleeve is properly aligned with the key and does not have a burr which would prevent its full travel.

You provide no pix of the other side - Is the stop ring properly in its groove?

The wingnut bears against a spring washer which bears against the sleeve. The wingnut does NOT bear against the casting when tightened.

If all the above 'assumptions' are correct, I do not see why either.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:11 pm

After staring at these two pix, the only thing that I see is the POSSIBILITY the casting ears are bent. This may be due to the different perspective and not real.
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heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:22 pm

JPG, where did that picture on the left come from?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:40 pm

heathicus wrote:JPG, where did that picture on the left come from?

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpos ... ostcount=1

You might find the links forward AND backward 'interesting'.

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:53 pm

JPG40504 wrote:http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpos ... ostcount=1

You might find the links forward AND backward 'interesting'.

Indeed! I followed several of the "similar threads" listed at the bottom of the page (and several "similar threads" at the bottom of those threads). These threads will be very helpful when I rebuild my Mark 5!

johnmccrossen · Post by **johnmccrossen** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:46 pm

JPG, I studied your great pictures a lot before I posted my question. Thanks again for showing the various assembly photos. I believe I now understand what is happening with the old headstock I have when I comparing the two side by side pictures. The quality of the headstock castings are like night and day. My casting shows very rough unfinished surfaces with thicker tapered ears. There is no machining on the side where the domed washer fits. There is also a piece of casting flash between the two ears that was never removed. I installed a quill pinion from a 1982 headstock using a stamped washer and tightened everything up. You can see from the picture how the washer sets at an angle against the casting ear and prevents the spacer and washer from seating as they should. Your casting shows a much cleaner, flatter, and narrower surface for the domed washer to set against. The quality of the headstock castings in June of 1954 might not have been so good but after 55+ years, it will still work when I get done and it's not going to cost very much. This is really fun stuff to mess around with. I will post some pics when I get this thing up and running. Thanks again, John McCrossen

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billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:52 pm

There is not anything wrong with your headstock. If you have been tracking Nick Engler's comments about the Power Pro headstock, the early greenie headstocks (no access hole) will not have an Power Pro upgrade kit available due to the thicker and rougher casting method used. The later headstocks with the access hole under the Logo cover was made using a different casting method that is thinner and is a more precision casting.

I add an access hole under the Logo cover and attach a bracket to the back of the logo cover. I find that I like this earlier headstock as it reduces internal sounds and seems to have less vibration than later headstocks. I do other modifications to this headstock to match the latest headstock setup.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:42 am

billmayo wrote:There is not anything wrong with your headstock. If you have been tracking Nick Engler's comments about the Power Pro headstock, the early greenie headstocks (no access hole) will not have an Power Pro upgrade kit available due to the thicker and rougher casting method used. The later headstocks with the access hole under the Logo cover was made using a different casting method that is thinner and is a more precision casting.

I add an access hole under the Logo cover and attach a bracket to the back of the logo cover. I find that I like this earlier headstock as it reduces internal sounds and seems to have less vibration than later headstocks. I do other modifications to this headstock to match the latest headstock setup.

I assume you have a 'sand cast' headstock! Should have realized the lack of the access hole indicated this.

If the control sheave shaft does NOT have an oil hole, add one! It is difficult enough to oil it with NO access hole either!

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:14 am

I have a question for the rebuilders. On my recent acquisition (1954 freebie greenie Mark 5), the original headstock was in pieces. When I reinstalled the quill pinion shaft, I noticed the sleeve on the quill lock side stuck out about 1/4" when it was up against the domed washer. On both of my
1960's machines, the sleeve does not stick out. The individual parts seem to match up with the newer units, so the only thing I can think of is that the headstock quill clamp casting might be thicker. I see no reason it won't work like this but was wondering about it. Any comments appreciated. Thanks, John McCrossen

Shopsmith used a washer that was crimped/stamped (added strength) that was used in the sand cast headstocks. It is about 1/3 the thickness of the domed washer used in later headstocks.

Many small production changes since 1954 were made to Shopsmith equipment that are not documented but improved the reliability and performance. Most times the older and newer improvement are interchangeable.