A Cranky Old Man

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:59 am

iclark wrote:respectfully, I must disagree with the last part of your post. many of our veterans and deceased brethren have paid a high price to stand up to thems in the name of freedoms or to prevent genocides.

the spirit of inclusion is a wonderful thing and can work wonders, but we must always be careful of who and what we include ourselves with.

Agreed! I was extolling an ideal goal. Reality is as you have pointed out. There are those who do not share that goal.

fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:14 am

iclark wrote:respectfully, I must disagree with the last part of your post. many of our veterans and deceased brethren have paid a high price to stand up to thems in the name of freedoms or to prevent genocides.

the spirit of inclusion is a wonderful thing and can work wonders, but we must always be careful of who and what we include ourselves with.

Please do not find my belief here offensive. I have lived enough years to realize that today our society has become horribly fractured. We have come to a point when we find it impossible to listen or attempt to understand the beliefs of others. That realization leaves me fearful that we will at some point become so paranoid that we will destroy others and in so doing, ourselves. I pray daily that we can learn to work and play together before each have a hand in the total destruction of our planet. Jim

iclark · Post by **iclark** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:23 am

fjimp wrote:Please do not find my belief here offensive.

I certainly do not find offense in your belief and I do not want to cause offense. after growing up in the duck-and-cover years, I understand and share the concerns about destruction. also, we have certainly seen way too much politics based on aggravating class envy. I prefer the model of our country based on the melting pot rather than the salad bowl taught in diversity training.

even so, I personally do not believe that it is paranoid to insist that the holocaust happened or to believe that there are those that wish ill of my country or of those of my religion. I am sorry, but jpg's turn of phrase together with the poem hit my Neville-Chamberlain-button while reminding me of the poem about "when they came for". my apologies for not being able to resist the soap box.

I failed to say earlier that I liked the poem and that I appreciated it being posted.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:22 pm

iclark wrote:I certainly do not find offense in your belief and I do not want to cause offense. after growing up in the duck-and-cover years, I understand and share the concerns about destruction. also, we have certainly seen way too much politics based on aggravating class envy. I prefer the model of our country based on the melting pot rather than the salad bowl taught in diversity training.

even so, I personally do not believe that it is paranoid to insist that the holocaust happened or to believe that there are those that wish ill of my country or of those of my religion. I am sorry, but jpg's turn of phrase together with the poem hit my Neville-Chamberlain-button while reminding me of the poem about "when they came for". my apologies for not being able to resist the soap box.

I failed to say earlier that I liked the poem and that I appreciated it being posted.

I wonder how many understand the difference between the 'melting pot' and the 'salad bowl'?

I did indeed 'turn a phrase' but it was a goal for the future, not a look back in history.

I also feel sadness at these fanatics 'denying the greatest inhumanity to man during my brief lifetime'. I do remember even though from a very young age(and I am of a different belief than those victims).

I fear the accuracy of the 'ignore/repeat history' adage. Add deny to that list of verbs.