Model 500 arbor diameter - 1-1/4" vs. 5/8" pros / cons?

[mickyd]

Two questions:

1. Are there any advantages to staying with my Greenies current 1-1/4" arbor as I consider future purchases?
2. Besides the saw blades, what other accessories require this large diameter arbor?

[dusty]

Two questions:

1. Are there any advantages to staying with my Greenies current 1-1/4" arbor as I consider future purchases?
2. Besides the saw blades, what other accessories require this large diameter arbor?

I don't know of any wood working related requirements for a 1 1/4" arbor.

In fact, the only advantage of having 1 1/4" arbors is that you can use saw blades purchased from Shopsmith that have the 1 1/4" hole. I don't believe Shopsmith even offers a 10" blade with a 5/8" arbor hole.

I wonder if there is an engineering explanation as to why OR is the answer strictly a marketing matter?

[wa2crk]

Hi Gang;
The way it was explained to me is that back in history during WW2 the standard hole in a 10" saw blade was 1and 1/4".
When the troops came home many were skilled in woodworking and other crafts as a result of the military training and were buying tools to use at home.
Soon after these same people were clammoring for tools with more capacity,particularly saws with 10" blades. Sears was at the time the leading seller of power tools and the radial arm saw was the leading seller which had a 5/8"arbor but only carried a 8" blade. All the manufacturers had to do was reconfigure the blade guard to enclose a ten inch blade and make the blade with a 5/8 hole. Soon after the table saws were designed to use ten inch blades with a 5/8" hole.
I was told that the 1 and 1/4 inch hole was originally used to stabilize the outer perimeter of the blade by requiring a larger washer. Now we have a whole market for large diameter washers called blade stabilizers that can be sold to get back to the original concept of blade stability!!What is the old saying "WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND".?
Bill

[jdramsey]

I don't know of any wood working related requirements for a 1 1/4" arbor.

In fact, the only advantage of having 1 1/4" arbors is that you can use saw blades purchased from Shopsmith that have the 1 1/4" hole. I don't believe Shopsmith even offers a 10" blade with a 5/8" arbor hole.

I wonder if there is an engineering explanation as to why OR is the answer strictly a marketing matter?

When I went to the traveling academy, I believe I heard Rick Davis say that the original idea for the 1 1/4" hole was that the engineers believed that it would bring greater stability to the saw blade. SS just never changed it. It also gives you an incentive to by SS blades.

[JPG]

The larger hole diameter allows the arbor to be 'shorter' since the blade(and arbor) can be slipped onto the quill shaft. This places the blade closer to the quill bore in the headstock. This reduces the stress on the shaft/arbor and reduces the effect of quill shaft runout.

I do not know of any other ss accessory that uses a 1 1/4" hole. 1 1/4" arbor holes are more common with larger/commercial saws.

Although 'inconvenient' they are 'better'.

I do not think it is a 'marketing' issue in the negative sense(proprietary).

[dusty]

[quote="wa2crk"]Hi Gang] At a traveling wood show, here in Tucson about a year ago, I was talking to the vendor selling Forrest blades about buying a couple. We also discussed stabilizers. When I told him that I needed 1 1/4" arbor holes he said no problem but he would have to order them because he did not stock 1 1/4" in the road trailer. Then he made a point of telling me that they did not recommend the stabilizer on blades with 1 1/4" arbor holes.

With that bit of info, I decided not to make the purchase.

Stabilizers or No stabilizers - I don't know. I do not use stabilizers on my blades because SS has never indicated the need. I don't believe they sell them either.

[dusty]

The larger hole diameter allows the arbor to be 'shorter' since the blade(and arbor) can be slipped onto the quill shaft. This places the blade closer to the quill bore in the headstock. This reduces the stress on the shaft/arbor and reduces the effect of quill shaft runout.

I do not know of any other ss accessory that uses a 1 1/4" hole. 1 1/4" arbor holes are more common with larger/commercial saws.

Although 'inconvenient' they are 'better'.

I do not think it is a 'marketing' issue in the negative sense(proprietary).

Wait a minute. Are you telling me that when I gear up with my 5/8" arbor and Forrest blade that I am stressing the quill shaft more than with the 1 1/4" arbor blades.

And - Why are they 'inconvenient' and why are they 'better'?

[reible]

I might have a couple of steel blades sitting around that still have the larger hole but I have none in use and have not since the mid 80's. That is to say I use 100% 5/8" blades on my shopsmith.

Ed

[fjimp]

Interesting discussion. Recently a friend assisted with a project and used the mark V for the first time. He liked it but didn't say much until he called and asked if he could use it to do several repetitive cuts for a bookcase. When he finished those cuts he commented that for some reason the Shopsmith blades seem to have less play and make more accurate repetitive cuts than his table saw. Now I know a reason to explain to him. Thanks guys. Jim

[reible]

FYI I just went in to my 38 deg shop to make sure I was right in thinking that both the arbors have the same major diameters, boy the metal is cold after holding it in your hands for a minute. Hard to hold the caliper steady but I'd say the number is about 1.875".

Now since I have no "real" table saw to measure maybe some kind sole with a "real" saw could tell us about what size washers theirs has?

I have a set of stabilizers from back in the 70's that I use to use. The new blade designs have lead to my not using them. But I have thought about the subject again and I think we have a thread here that we left off on waiting for Ed in Tampa to talk to the Infinity tool people and their opinion on the subject. I'll see if I can find it and if so post the link.

Ed