Uh oh... the safety police are here...

[Ed in Tampa]

Maybe what is needed is for someone with a SawStop to cut into a piece of wood that is moist enough to trigger the safety detector. A little press about that might slow the trend.

There have been misfires but they seem to get lost. I suspect the inventor is able to keep them quiet.
In any case when enough blades and arbor assemblies get destroyed the truth will come out.

But I think this is a losing battle. The insurance companies and now this have targeted the tablesaw heavily. I know a few small production shops that had to get rid of their tablesaws to be able to afford the insurance. I also know of two woodworking schools that closed because of insurance issues with tablesaws. Lastly there was a place here the Bay area that you could go and rent time on his tools. He would instruct and assist as much or as little as you requested and paid of course. He was told by his insurance that he had to get rid of the tablesaw or they would drop his insurance. He closed.

I have also been told that most High School shop classes which are already facing huge budget problems are now under the gun to switch to hands off CNC or shut down the program. The hands off CNC price tag is huge so most have decided to shut down.

Like I said earlier I think we are seeing the beginning of the end of table saws. If you are just beginning in wood working I would advise you to start thinking of tablesaw alternatives. If you are an old foggy like me and few others we will probably hang up our hobby before the tablesaws are outlawed.

[Ed in Tampa]

I've heard that in Europe, table saws have almost been regulated out of existence already and that the bandsaw is the primary tool used for cutting wood.

Because of his thuggish business practices, I hope the Saw Stop guy fails. I'd much rather see the Whrilwind Braking System that someone here linked to previously, or some other alternative, have the leading market share when everything settles.

Of course, "safety" devices like this are not always able to substitute for common sense.

You are right from what I hear also. I'm told you can't sell a tablesaw in Europe on which a dado blade can be mounted.

Frankly I think the Sawstop guy out tricked himself. From what I see instead of getting his invention on every saw it looks like the saw is going to become extinct.
At first it looked like the High School shop classes and other education facilities were going to buy into Sawstop but it now looks like due to insurance and economic pressure they are going to shut down.
The pro shops are already in the process of shifting off the tablesaw due to insurance pressure.

My guess with lost of government money for education machines, and the lost of market in the professional sector due to insurance issues and finally with the economic picture which is causing hobbiest to make due I think most manufactures are going to stop production.

I noticed the Home Depot and Lowes now only special order stationary table saws and I think Home Depot and Ridgid may be backing off stationary table saws altogether. If you go to Home Depot they have closed out the stationary tablesaws (I think it was model 4511 with a granite top hybrid) and I haven't seen a replacment.

[shipwright]

Won't be long before we have to cut our steaks with plastic scissors....but not sharp ones.

Paul M

[JPG]

Well, S..T!!!!! One more reason to make it illegal for lawyers to hold public office, or be a judge!

[robinson46176]

A friend once cut the hell out of her finger on one of those plastic picnic knives.
I keep dropping back to a disagreement I had with a woodworker on another wood list one time... He "insisted" that he cut his thumb because he did not use the guard. I insisted that he cut his thumb because he stuck it into the moving blade. I contended that his thumb should not have been where it was whether the guard was there or not...
Can you imagine how careless many guys would get if all saws had that system. Their only incentive to be careful with their saw would be the cost of repairing it after it locked up. Then they might get sloppier with their other tools.
On about all tablesaws (except the Sawsmith 2000) the blade sits and operates in one spot. It is right there every time you use it. It was there the last time you made a cut. It is right there for this cut. And it will be right there the next time you make a cut. Right there in pretty much the same place every time. Don't place body parts in that spot and you will generally be OK. It all seems pretty simple to me but then I am a farmer (mostly retired now) and I grew up using stuff that makes a tablesaw look like a kids toy... I also was a shoemaker for a few decades and much of that machinery is pretty squirrely as well along with a lot of high force knife work. I can still count to 20 without taking my pants down...
BTW, do you know how many of that kind lawyers it takes to grease a big self-propelled combine? Just one if you run him through real slow...

[charlese]

My hope now is this ruling gets overthrown on appeal.
However, that doesn't do anything for a bigger problem - insurance rates.

This might be an opportunity for some entrepreneur lawyer who is a woodworker, perhaps, can start an insurance enterprise specializing in woodworking insurance at a reasonable cost.

Frankly, I don't see an end to these types of law suits. As long as there are lawyers with imaginations and folks looking for a big fast buck, they will continue. From automobiles, to kitchen appliances, to woodworking machines, even revolving doors - or any stupid reason that will surprise all of us.

[JPG]

My hope now is this ruling gets overthrown on appeal.
However, that doesn't do anything for a bigger problem - insurance rates.

This might be an opportunity for some entrepreneur lawyer who is a woodworker, perhaps, can start an insurance enterprise specializing in woodworking insurance at a reasonable cost.

Frankly, I don't see an end to these types of law suits. As long as there are lawyers with imaginations and folks looking for a big fast buck, they will continue. From automobiles, to kitchen appliances, to woodworking machines, even revolving doors - or any stupid reason that will surprise all of us.

Or hot coffee!:mad:

[bhurley]

As a side note to all of this -

I have to tell you whenever I encounter someone who says they do woodwork I always look down at their hands to see how many fingers they have. I think you can always tell a lot about a person's work habits and quality of work by their attention to detail. People who use the appropriate attention to detail don't put themselves in a position to stick fingers in tablesaws and bandsaws.

[dusty]

As a side note to all of this -

I have to tell you whenever I encounter someone who says they do woodwork I always look down at their hands to see how many fingers they have. I think you can always tell a lot about a person's work habits and quality of work by their attention to detail. People who use the appropriate attention to detail don't put themselves in a position to stick fingers in tablesaws and bandsaws.

OUCH! That hurt. But it is true. When you look at my hands you see evidence of someone who has done at least a couple pretty stupid things. I have some pretty nasty scars that resulted from shop incidents.

BUT - I did not sue. I accept the fact that what I did was my fault and not Shopsmith's. If only everyone could come to that realization.

[shipwright]

I have one nasty table saw scar. It was caused by complacency (sp?), probably the single most common cause of shop accidents among experienced woodworkers.When it happened I remember clearly that my first thought was not "ouch" it was in fact "you stupid #$@^&&%$#(*&^!!!!!!!!!
I didn't sue either, Dusty. I did however, remember to try to retain the respect for these tools that I had when I was younger and not as familiar with them.

Paul M