Mark V overhaul

[ted2]

Well, first a switch goes out. No big deal, take apart, clean, re-do connections, works again. Turn a few pens, switch won't turn off. Big problem. Use the plug/unplug method to finish the pen. (Not reccomended)

Notice that the gilmer belt seems to slip when turning anything larger than a pen. When using the disc sander, it starts to clank and slowly gets going. So, with a slipping gilmer belt, and a power problem, I decide to take the whole thing apart.
After taking the gilmer belt off from the "Drive sleeve assembly" Notice that it looks like this. When I first rebuilt the SS, about 3 months ago, I replaced this.(The gilmer belt) How did this happen? I clean, grease or oil everything. (Sheaves, bearings, nuts, bolts.)
But the bearings on the "Drive sleeve assembly" seems to be fairly tight. Is this normal, or do I need to take these apart. I put a liberal amount of oil on them, and let it soak for 30 min or so. Still seem much tighter than any other bearings.
Now for the power problem. I thought I needed a switch, but I think the whole on/off thing is explained by the 4 strands of wire that are just barely hanging on. That is something I can do tonight, and if I get to it, I'll let you know.
So, to sum it all up,
1) Am I doing anything wrong to make the gilmer belt tear itself to shreds. (not tightening where I should, or putting too much pressure on the machine when turning or roughing out bowls up to probably 7-8 inches?)

2) Is the lose wire most likely my power problem?

3) Is the tightness of the drive sleeve assembly normal, or do I need to repair/replace?

Thanks for reading this long-winded post. ANy advice will help.

Ted

[wannabewoodworker]

Well first off those electrical connections are a serious problem so those need to be fixed immediately.

Next that belt is catostrophic failure due to something not turning when it should be turning. The Gilmer Drive has a clutch in it that should slip if there is any sort of binding keeping the belt from doing what yours has done. So without seeing it myself I would guess you probably need a complete gilmer drive assembly with new bearings. The bearings should not be "tight" they should feel smooth but not freely spin when spun with your finger.

I am by no means an expert here but I am finishing up my second rebuild on a Mark V and have been a professional mechanic for many years prior to switching careers and that belt tells me something is seriously amiss inside that headstock. Those belts are pretty beefy and for it to ripp all of the teeth off of the belt there is something binding up severely or not turning at all.

If it were my machine it would get all new bearings for everything and while it was completely apart i would check and inspect all parts for abnormal wear and tear and those would also be replaced. The bearings are very inexpensive especially if you have the ability to replace them yourself. If you do not feel comfortable doing this yourself then there is a guy named Jacob in maryland I think that will completely rebuild your headstock at very reasonable prices.

By the way where are you located??? if you are close to me I would be happy to assist with the bearing removal/replacement doesn't take very long with the right tools which i have.

[mikelst]

pictures help immensely in troubleshooting. We like pictures:D

[ted2]

As far as the electrical goes, I think I have the problem fixed. I cleaned up a few connections at the motor, re-did the connection that was hanging by a few strands, and everything works fine. I do think that there is a major problem in the drive sleeve, and will look into getting new bearings for that. Does anyone here just sell the bearings? I checked every other bearing, and they all seem ok, except for the drive sleeve assembly (If I'm calling it the right word) SO I think that the only problem is there. Time to go tinker and see if I can get those bearings off!

[mikelst]

Try this as a look-up page for headstock nomenclature. That way we will all be on the same page
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/partscat/headstockassemblyexpview.htm

A picture of the relevant part could help too.

[ted2]

Well, after cleaning and re-packing the bearings, it seems much better. Bearings spun just fine with all the old grease out. Now putting the assembly back together once I took the central piece apart was the challenge. The spring did not need to come out, I should have just taken out the bearings and stopped there. Lesson learned. I guess all I need to do now is get another G-belt and keep an eye on things. Unless there is something else I should do...
Now that everything is already out, I think I'll paint the headstock too!

[RobertTaylor]

from the second picture you still are not at the probable problem and that is the clutch. still inside the aluminum piece that is on the steel shaft are the steel and fiber disks that make up the clutch using pressure from the spring that you thought you did not need to remove. keep going as the disks are probably stuck together which would be why the clutch is not working. it will take some effort to seperate the steel/fiber disks without damaging them, but they need to be seperated and cleaned before reassembly. hope this helps. bob

[ted2]

I did take that apart, and found the clutch, but didn't know that in needed to be separated and cleaned. What a pain it was to put that spring back in! Guess I'll have to take it apart again, oh well. The disks were stuck together, but after I gently separate them, what should I use to clean them? Do I need to lube them? Thanks!
Ted

[wannabewoodworker]

Well look at it this way you know how to get it back together now.... The clutch discs should be cleaned with something that does not damage them unless they are already damaged which is very possible. I would use something like denatured alcohol or mineral spirits to clean the clutch pack and then inspect the disc material to see if it is worth re-using.

Those bearings are not supposed to be disassembled as they are meant to be permanently sealed. Now that you have popped the seals off they are compromised in my humble opinion. I would trash those bearings and replace them with new ones from VXB Bearings. They cost very little to replace and it is good piece of mind knowing you have brand new sealed bearings in there. I would replace all of the bearings that can be replaced while you have it all apart as you are already in there. VXB will ship them to you in 2-4 days and they are really fast. You need to measure your current bearings to see what you need and then you can look up the sizes by searching on the VXB site. The bearings for the upper drive Gilmer shaft should be:

6205ZZ Bearing 25x52x15 Shielded $3.45 2 ea.

But check and make sure yours are the same size. They should be based on your pictures.

[mickyd]

This thread may be of some assistance. It shows how I cleaned and torque tested. The clutch should slip between 10-20 ft-lbs.

This photo shows a better clamp method than what I used although mine worked fine and I didn't have to make anything. I was fortunate that the fiber and metal clutch disk components were not froze together. They came apart with gentle persuasion with a metal putty knife.

DO NOT LUBE any of the clutch components. The clutch works with the friction between fiber and steel disks. If you have to lower the torque, after cleaning, you can place two or three metal washers together vs. alternating. If you have to raise the torque, the only thing I can think of is roughing up the surface of the steel disc surface but am not sure.

p.s. Can you elaborate on why the spring was difficult to reinstall? It should have been a snap....at least it was on mine.