Electrolysis Power Source

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:30 pm

JPG40504 wrote:What appears to be 'suds' is a surprise! Is this because of the 'wrong' product, or are you getting that much bubbling?

You will need to move/rotate the box to get it working on both inside and outside and all sides. It does work around corners somewhat, but the further from straight line, the slower it works.

Nice meters! Really like the simpson! Do not drop it!!!!

Straight line from where to where, JPG? I assume you mean "no obstruction between the rusty surface and the positive anode".

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:52 pm

dusty wrote:Straight line from where to where, JPG? I assume you mean "no obstruction between the rusty surface and the positive anode".

Correct assumption. Path with or without an 'obstruction'.

The 'electrodes' are the anode(+) and the cathode(-). Remember the 'electron vacuum tubes' had a heated 'cathode'. That was where the 'electrons' were emitted from.

In this setup, the cathode is the negative electrode and is the item being 'derusted'.

Methinks the current falloff is due to a buildup of crud on the anode and/or depletion of rust on the cathode.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:49 pm

dusty wrote:The Simpson is a nice meter but it has a couple functions that I can not figure out how to use. This particular model was designed for use on the railroads. It supports rail signaling somehow.

Notice the four modes on the left side of the select switch (X100, Set100, Fast and Slow) - all mysteries to me.

Maybe this will help demystification.

http://www.simpsonelectric.com/uploads/File/ts113_manual.pdf

see page 15

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:10 am

Thanks JPG. It seems to be function that indicates whether the train is on time or not. This seems to have nouseful purpose for me. Thankfully, the rest of the functions all work like a normal multimeter.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:11 pm

dusty wrote:Anodes? I have only one unless to which you refer is the rusty item. Right now the positive lead is connected to a piece of flat iron that is about 5"x7".

The other lead is connected via the ammeter to the item being treated (the rusted ammunition box lid).

I mixed the WRONG SODA on a ratio of 1 tablespoon per gallon of water. The container would hold 58 quarts (14.5 gal) of water. I used 1 cup of WRONG SODA . A bit strong since the container is not full to the brim but close.

The amperage does tend to go down with time but I am not certain why. I have concluded that it is not a direct indicator of progress.

CAUTION: Don't stick your finger in the bubbles. They have something to do with the current. Really dumb, especially for someone who has worked on hot circuits for most of his life.

Good choice of anode material. It will last you a long time. More surface area would be better since it doesn't gunk up as fast but as long as you scrape it down with a putty knife when it starts to build up to much, it will work fine.

Here's my anode of choice...sheet metal. I liked this setup since for the surrounds the workpiece. There is another piece not shown that I put on the open side and connect it to the main section with a copper wire and a nut / bolt.
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Being so thin, it only lasts for about five 24 hr. uses before lots of small through holes start to appear but I have a supply of scrap metal so I just build up a new one. I keep an eye out on craigslist for free metal desks, file cabinets etc. when my supply gets low.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:49 pm

dusty wrote:Thanks JPG. It seems to be function that indicates whether the train is on time or not. This seems to have nouseful purpose for me. Thankfully, the rest of the functions all work like a normal multimeter.

That was my initial 'interpretation', but I now believe it is for determining the percentage 'made' time of some switching gear. That is why it is a subfunction of resistance mode. The x100 and x1000 is a multiplier for the resistance function.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:56 am

The electrolysis process really does work. I am impressed but at the same time frustrated. There are some limitations. I wanted to dunk this rusty thing in, leave it there the required time and pull it out ready to go on with the painting process.

It doesn't exactly work that way. As stated earlier, there is a "line of sight" limitation. The process does not work on everything in the tank but rather only on those items in direct line with the anode (positive plate).

The frustration sets in while trying to de-rust an enclosed container (a box).

Late today I am going to hang the anode on the inside of a rusty ammunition box which will itself be the cathode (negative node). I am hoping that the process will work in all directions radiating out for the cathode to the surrounding anode.

A question for those of you who have put headstocks through the electrolysis process - How did you do this?

Also - if I put a carriage assembly in the tank will electrolysis remove (act on) all the paint or does it just work on the rusted areas.?

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:11 pm

dusty wrote:The electrolysis process really does work. I am impressed but at the same time frustrated. There are some limitations. I wanted to dunk this rusty thing in, leave it there the required time and pull it out ready to go on with the painting process.

It doesn't exactly work that way. As stated earlier, there is a "line of sight" limitation. The process does not work on everything in the tank but rather only on those items in direct line with the anode (positive plate).

The frustration sets in while trying to de-rust an enclosed container (a box).

Late today I am going to hang the anode on the inside of a rusty ammunition box which will itself be the cathode (negative node). I am hoping that the process will work in all directions radiating out for the cathode to the surrounding anode.

A question for those of you who have put headstocks through the electrolysis process - How did you do this?

Also - if I put a carriage assembly in the tank will electrolysis remove (act on) all the paint or does it just work on the rusted areas.?

Your approach doing the inside will work. If you can submerge the entire box so that it is under water, do that. Otherwise, fill the box with the electrolyte as high as you can and connect the negative to it. Keep the negative connection above the water. A C-clamp attached to a bare metal side of the box may be needed as your connect point to keep the connection out of the water.

Your question regarding headstocks and carriages would only apply to ER10's. Since the Mark V (5)'s components are made of aluminum, they wouldn't have any need to go in the tank. I haven't done an ER headstock but if I would, I would lay it in my surround tank shown in the post above with it on it's side (electrically insulated from the bottom of the tank naturally) so the the inside is in the line of sight of the sheet metal (cathode) OR, I would put it in the solution upside down and run another electrode (cathode) off the sheet metal, connected with copper wire, and dangle it inside the headstock.

Electrolysis does work real well as a paint remover. I wouldn't use it on aluminum parts but for steel it works quite well.

Anxious to see pics dusty.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:54 am

mickyd wrote:Your approach doing the inside will work. If you can submerge the entire box so that it is under water, do that. Otherwise, fill the box with the electrolyte as high as you can and connect the negative to it. Keep the negative connection above the water. A C-clamp attached to a bare metal side of the box may be needed as your connect point to keep the connection out of the water.

Your question regarding headstocks and carriages would only apply to ER10's. Since the Mark V (5)'s components are made of aluminum, they wouldn't have any need to go in the tank. I haven't done an ER headstock but if I would, I would lay it in my surround tank shown in the post above with it on it's side (electrically insulated from the bottom of the tank naturally) so the the inside is in the line of sight of the sheet metal (cathode) OR, I would put it in the solution upside down and run another electrode (cathode) off the sheet metal, connected with copper wire, and dangle it inside the headstock.

Electrolysis does work real well as a paint remover. I wouldn't use it on aluminum parts but for steel it works quite well.

Anxious to see pics dusty.

Oops. Just in time warning! Am I to understand that I should not expose my carriage assembly to the electrolysis process? I believe it is cast aluminum.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:54 am

dusty wrote:Oops. Just in time warning! Am I to understand that I should not expose my carriage assembly to the electrolysis process? I believe it is cast aluminum.

Correct-a-mundo. Aluminum will be harmed by the electrolysis if it is kept in too long.

Were you planning on putting the carriage assembly to remove the paint, remove aluminum oxide of the casting surface, or to derust the steel components?