Shopsmith Deals-- not such a deal

[kalynzoo]

Ah, the aluminum table. If only aluminum tables were magnetic. But with my bad back, and weak knees, the whole idea of a compact convertible tool system is the ability to make simple changes. I think I would have a problem with a solid steel table, lifting it out and moving it over to a storage rack. As for the slot, if SS changed it now, all you guys who restore old units would be SOL.
Just my opinion from a happy camper.

[charlese]

Ah, the aluminum table. ... I would have a problem with a solid steel table, lifting it out and moving it over to a storage rack. As for the slot, if SS changed it now, all you guys who restore old units would be SOL.
Just my opinion from a happy camper.

You are right on, Gary!! - on two counts!!!:) Lifting the table up and out is a "hefty, reaching lift". I would not like to be forced to put a winch/come-a-long on the rafters to help with this chore. Sometimes lighter is better!

Miter slots? This is one of my continuing bits of wonderment. When SS designed and made their slots they were the industry standard. It is the rest of the tool makers that changed!!! Who knows when they will change again so they can profit from new parts. At least SS has made their machines and interchangeable.

[beeg]

Oh and one last item, there is a reason the shopsmith table track is the size it is and not larger.

Can ya expand upon that Tenbears?

[Ed in Tampa]

Wood Magazine current issue did a really brief review of the V120 miter guide. They loved it.
They listed Manufacture Retail at $75

[JPG]

"Shopsmith is unigue but having a miter bar 1/16 wider than the industry standard"(Ed in Tampa)

I do not know what model ss you have, but most of us have miter bars that are smaller than 3/4".

"When SS designed and made their slots they were the industry standard"(Charlese)

When ss designed the 10E they used the 'industry standard' of 3/4"! I question the use of the words industry standard, because I believe it is purely coincidental.

"They are both basically internet businesses, so we are talking apples and apples and oranges and oranges."(Ed in Tampa)

The fruit distinction is, Shopsmith is a design/build/sell firm, Amazon is sell only! Shopsmith IS supporting previous purchasers(even though from predecessor firms), whereas Amazon supports nothing! .

". Oh and one last item, there is a reason the shopsmith table track is the size it is and not larger. When in doubt read the manual(Tenbears)

Perhaps you could elucidate this bit of wisdom, since I have no idea what you are referring to!:eek:

Dusty: I thank you for a plausible explanation of HOW amazon could be 'so cheap"(Not typical of them)

[mickyd]

My opinion is that a family owned and operated business is in no way comparable to any other type of business. I work for woman owned small business and a privately owned company can be driven by different factors that other businesses. As long as the business is not draining the bank account long term, there can be a tendency to view things as 'good enough'. Sure a lot depends on the passion and work ethics of the top dog(s), but if the bank account looks like it will provide funds for daily life and a nest egg for those future years, that can be all you care about. Less pressure, less headaches can be worth a heck of a lot more than money. If ShopSmith owner is OK with where short and long term finances are, it is what it is and that's ok. Pressure and stress can kill quickly, especially when one gets older. Passion and drive can be significantly reduced also.

[paulrussell]

I find myself on both sides of the fence here, even though we are speaking of a miter, not a fence.

I sympathize with the original poster regarding the Shopsmith version being significantly more expensive than the generic. I am concerned that many Shopsmith products are priced "too high" (or "premium priced" if you wish a more positive connotation.)

Whether or not prices might prove to be the proverbial final nail in the coffin, I don't know. But what I strongly suspect is that the folks at Shopsmith wish as much as we do that they could be selling their stuff for less and still be making a profit. It is very frankly a matter of scale. The number of people buying upgraded miters is not high enough for Incra to scale up production for Shopsmith-specific versions. I suspect each one is indeed manually remade, and man-hours are expensive.

I suspect that Shopsmith is hanging by a financial thread, and every day is a battle for existence. They can't sell a new machine because the used market is flooded with robust working models that sell for as low as 1/10th the price. For example today, for $400, I hauled home a Mark V, a Planer, and a Bandsaw. Assuming it would cost $1500 to bring the Mark V up to current 510 configuration using all new parts, I bought $3500 of Shopsmith for $400.

And on top of that they've even lost much of the repair parts market to those who part out Shopsmith gear on ebay.

Why do they keep the non-standard miter? Well, for one thing they would lose one of the few captive markets they still hold. Shopsmith has a proprietary miter slot, and a non-standard (for home tools) saw arbor size. These two things do a small part in driving business in Shopsmith's direction. Given their current financial situation, it would be a poor decision indeed to switch to the now-standard 5/8 arbor and 3/4 miter slot.4

So yes, Shopsmith stuff is expensive. But I take issue with the belief that they currently have it in their power to price them any lower.

Let's all hope for an amazing resurgence of Shopsmith when the PowerPro finally sees the light of day.

[stevespix]

Some will always drink the company Kool ade and will always make excuses and that's fine. The bigger point I have tried to make is this, Apple made the same type of decision that shopsmith did and of course they have their converts. However Bill Gates and others made the decision to bring in other companies and they took over the market with their marketing stratagy. And the PC became the standard and not the Apple. If you offer the best product at reasonable prices people will always choose the best option. If you try and protect and play defense your doomed to failure.

I own three shopsmiths so it's not like I haven't been loyal my point to them is there is no reason to make your retail price $100 when someone else is selling $30 less for the same basic item. I can be patient and wait sooner or later Ebay or Craigslist will offer one cheap. And under the current state of the economy someone will be hard up for money and sell one cheap.

[paulrussell]

deleted rant

[Ed in Tampa]

I have found there is really only two mind sets in the business world. One set says, "I will make a $1 profit and sell a thousand" and another says, "I will make $10 profit and sell 100."

Usually what happens is the company that settled for a $1 profit sells two thousand and the company that wanted $10 profit sells 100 or less and everyone is happy.

When things get tight the mind set in both these companies take over once more. The $1 profit company looks for ways to cut price and retain the profit. In the $10 profit company they usually raise the price so they only have to sell 90 to retain the profit of selling 100.

However when things get like they are today usually the company that sold two thousand now only sells a thousand and the company that kept raising price to adjust for the lost market is out of business.

I don't know where Shopsmith is at in the process but they have to cut both manufacturing costs and their price if they want to survive.
In today's economy and today's competition any thing else won't work.