Shopsmith Deals-- not such a deal

[Ed in Tampa]

[quote="JPG40504"]"Shopsmith is unigue but having a miter bar 1/16 wider than the industry standard"(Ed in Tampa)

I do not know what model ss you have, but most of us have miter bars that are smaller than 3/4".]

Sorry I had miter bar slot size mixed up. Actually being a loyal Shopsmith user I never tried using anything other than Shopsmith products so I was going on hear say and apparently I had my fact mixed up. Sorry!

As to Shopsmith and Amazon in the case of this miter gauge I think it is Apples and Apples, both are selling another manufactures product on the internet. I don't know what the manufacture charges SS to retool the bar but it is driving the price up to the point they SS has to charge $25 above the Manufactures retail price for their standard this puts SS in a very poor position in this economy.

Shopsmith should consider two options manufacturing a gauge that competes with the v120 or retooling the bar themselves to save cost. If that can't be done then I think Shopsmith would be wise to make sure their "Sales" aren't running when other companies like Amazon are having a sale and discounting the same product even more.

To do anything less makes Shopsmith look like they are overcharging.
My humble opinion.

[travmech]

I just recently adapted a Grizzly H7583 tenoning jig and had the miter bar modified a a local machine shop for $18 so it would work on my SS 510. I am sure you could do the same thing with most any miter bar for other attachments. Just wanted to share that.

[JPG]

In the narrow case of the v-tech miter, I agree it is apples/apples, but the rework still must be done/paid for.

These specialized miter bars are not adaptable to just milling/grinding a smidgen off each side.

Yes If we were residents of utopia, we would not be having this 'discussion'.

Although I do disagree with much of what and how Stevespix has posted, he does make some valid points. Things could be 'better'; all it would take is some time spent by non-existent 'extra' employees and some virtual cash.

Hopefully the time will come(soon) when both shortcomings can be eliminated.

[riot_nrrd]

The simple fact is that Shopsmith is trying very hard to figure out how to make money in this "new" economy.

Right now, they are pinning all their hopes on the PowerPro. They are funding this the best way they can... by selling accessories for their existing tools to make money so they can stay afloat. Whether those are "discounted" prices or not, we should still assume (hopefully) they are making enough money to keep solvent, continue paying for their debt, and hopefull put some money into power pro development. Everone here is pretty sure they are using the Tekna FVR tech... that is just a more advanced version of licensing technology and selling it on a cost-plus basis.

What other options do they have?

1.) Trim down to their core competency. Switch to non-proprietary accessories, and expand their SPTs to be more "standard." The problem is that this costs money, and it solely focused on making their tool more ubiquitous - so it effectivley lowers their revenue, unless it so happens that people want a Shopsmith for other reasons. But new buyers don't care; they live in the land of McMansions and don't worry about space - they can buy $4000 of stand-alone tools and have "better" than what they get with SS (never mind that they never use it). As cool as the Shopsmith is, I suspect that most people here, if they had a 200sqft shop, would buy stand-alone tools.

2.) Stop supporting the existing tools, and only look forward with a complete redesign for the PowerPro. The problem is that while this would be cheaper, they would lose their installed base.... and they can't compete on price. They have to go for their niche market, and eliminating backward compatibility doesn't work.

Long story shot, although iI'd love to see them doing something that was more beneficial to me, I think they are doing the best they can with what they have. If they made different decisions 20 years ago,then maybe things would be different... but they have made their decisions, we have made ours, and if we want to have our tools around and supported over the next dozen years, we need to reconginize that we have an investment in the future of the company.

With somone like Incra, you have to recognize that the market for a "shopsmith version" is much smaller that for a standard 3/4" version. If the fixed cost of a miter slot bar is x, and the variable cost is y per unit, then you have to expect that the price is going to be greater in the smaller market (because x is spread across less units). Yes, that sucks for us, but we could have avoided this by buying a Jet, or a Delta, or a Laguna, or whatever else. Now, its a little late to be complaining. We are all in this togehter, for better or for worse.

[JPG]

Riot_nrrd: Nicely stated!

[reible]

After wading through all the stuff posted here I went to the Incra site to see what they had to offer information and price wise.

Both the standard and shopsmith V120 versions list for $84.95.
The miter bar (part number PV27-700100 STD version) is $22.95.
The shopsmith bar (part number PV12-700150) is $22.95.

Shopsmith adds the safety grip adapter kit (looks like a block of AL with a threaded hole for the mitergauge safety grip and some holes and mounting hardware to mount it to the V120 (I can't see from the picture how the other end attaches???). It also appears that the "fence mounting bracket" has additional holes for the mounting. This is value added in both parts and labor which might account for the additional cost.

It always pays to examine the reality of the situation and in this case the it would appear that the shopsmith version should actually cost more. I don't know if the cost differences should be what they are but if we picture a load and labor cost of $60/hour and guess the time at just 15 minutes that is $15 and another $1 for the hardware equals about $16. Now a touch of profit and maybe all things work out????

Ed

[cv3]

Well said Riot_nrrd. I know that when I got my SS I had shopped around. I knew it was not the best deal money wise. But it met my needs better than any thing ells. That is still true today. All its accessories are, for the most part, unique to the SS. They are going to be more expensive , if for no other reason than per unit cost are greater when you have limited volumes. And I have saved money not had to build a bigger shop to satisfy my tool cravings. That may not be true if I get as bad as some of you with 3 and 4 shopsmiths!!!;)

[tenbears]

Try sliding a piece of 3/4 plywood in the shopsmith miter slot. Then try sliding a piece of 3/4 S4S dimensional stock in the miter slot. Can't speak to Baltic Birch since since I don't have a convenient source. Also doesn't apply to MDF or HD fiber board. But ...Somewhere, in the annals of Shopsmith knowledge, believe it might have been one of Nick's great videos, the reasoning or maybe justification/rationalization for this issue was discussed. Filed it in the back of my mind thinking what great forethought the designer had. Have used that tidbit on more than one occasion to make a quick jig or two. I can only speak to current model MarkV tables not older prior models. I got mine new in 2005.
Just another case of thinking outside the box!

[JPG]

Back when the Mark 5 was created, 3/4" plywood measured 3/4"! and 1/2" plywood measured 1/2" and . . .

A current advantage perhaps, but not the original 'reason'.

[robinson46176]

I am a serious price shopper pretty much across the board. Sometimes I take the price route, sometimes I don't. When I do not buy from the higher guy I just walk away without harboring hard feelings for the seller. They set their asking price. I have the option of paying it or not. As long as they are open, honest and clear about the price I'm fine with their price being higher than somebody else's. I get to decide if I buy or not.