Shopsmith Deals-- not such a deal

[keakap]

Miter slots? This is one of my continuing bits of wonderment. When SS designed and made their slots they were the industry standard. It is the rest of the tool makers that changed!!! .

And I understand that the "norm" used to be tilting table versus tilting arbor.

Are we finding out that the "rogue" wrote the book?

[keakap]

...there is no reason to make your retail price $100 when someone else is selling $30 less for the same basic item. .

Is the discussion any more credible if specific facts are used to address specific problems? If one has a specific example, why invent another one?
Just curious.

[keakap]

I have one question. If ya have a problem/question with the V120 from amazon. WHO do ya call?

Well, having dealt with Amazon with a purely Amazon problem, I can tell you that they were quite happy to tell me to go jump in a lake.

[keakap]

Yup, you're missing something. There ain't no cars for sale here. It's sorta hard to tell but this is a wood working forum!:rolleyes:

Whew-- talk about missing somethin!



[Shopsmith Forums: Community--

[Ed in Tampa]

I don't know if I can buy the assumption that ShopSmith's stocking, handling and marketing costs are preceisely the same for a NON-ShopSmith product as Amazon's.

I find a little disturbing the underlying thread here that all vendors must sell all products for the same price. Wasn't there once a government agency called WPA or some such that tried to dictate sellers' pricings? I sure hope the White House doesn't hear about this sale. We surely don't need a new ShopSmith Czar?

I think everyone is missing my point. First I'm not suggestting any sort of wrong doing on Shopsmith's part. If they want/need to sell something at a higher price that is their option.

What I'm trying to say is; I think we all know Shopsmith is in a very serious financial position. When that happens some companies somehow figure if they raise price that will compensate for selling less.
Other companies resort to ad hype spending a fortune that may or may not return dividends advertizing their product.

Still other companies rely on what I see as common sense approach offering a superior product at reasonable cost. Many times they even lower the retail prices to stimulate sales, less profit per sale but more sells equals a growing customer base. The bigger your customer base the easier it is to ride the waves of change.

Most of all a savy company no matter what direction they take must be aware of the their competition. When they run a sale it is a sale even when compared to the competition. If they can't do that then they insure everyone knows the uplifts in their product the makes it worth more than the competition.

I believe Shopsmith is relying on their existing customer base to pull them through this economic situation but they are allowing their customer base to slip through their fingers. That is my fear.

Complaints like the one that started this thread shouldn't occur. The sale ad that announced the sale that was complained about should be written in such a manner that no one would consider comparing the Shopsmith to the other V120. Everyone would know from the ad that SS V120 is a superior product upgraded by Shopsmith or whoever to make it vastly superior to the standard V120 offered a lower or equal price. That is call selling. And that is what I see is missing in Shopsmith today.

[dusty]

An opinion: the SS V120 is not at all superior to the standard V120 that Incra (and others) sell. The characteristics that the SS V120 has that makes it attractive to a SS user is that it fits the SS miter track and it employs the Safety Grip. We, as Shopsmith Users, certainly benefit from this because the V120 is a fantastic tool to be added into our inventory of accessories.

A Word of Caution: a standard V120 cannot be easily converted to accept the SS miter bar.

A futile effort: as far as Amazon is concerned, Amazon is nothing more than another retailer attempting to grab a share of the market (any and every market). Trying to time a Shopsmith sale so that it does not occur at the time of an Amazon offering can be compared to holding back that oil slick in the gulf.

[paulrussell]

An opinion: the SS V120 is not at all superior to the standard V120 that Incra (and others) sell. The characteristics that the SS V120 has that makes it attractive to a SS user is that it fits the SS miter track and it employs the Safety Grip. We, as Shopsmith Users, certainly benefit from this because the V120 is a fantastic tool to be added into our inventory of accessories.

That is my exact impression as well. The complicating factor is that members of this forum not only want fair value from their money, but also have a vested interest in the survival of the Shopsmith company. As such it is painful to see the company do something that could be damaging.
I believe Shopsmith should be more open regarding stocking levels and backorder dates. I should not have to check my order status to find out what was or was not in stock. I should not need to call or write to ask when I might expect my backorder to be shipped. Backorders should generate an automatic 'backordered: expected ship date' notice.
I've been staring at two packages of velcro sanding disks for the last month which I ordered as part of a 'set'. Too bad the mounting system (part of the kit) was, and remains, backordered, rendering the disks useless.
I know it's a matter of good people trying to do the best they can with limited resources in a rough economy. However as a newcomer to the SS world I don't have fond memories of customer service past. My recent purchasing experiences have been below expectation (not the products).

[stevespix]

When I started this post I did not bring up my frustration with shopsmith and their order filling. I have on several occasions and my wife also for Christmas and other special days have tried to order several items and most all of them have been back ordered. There is no reason in the world to offer products for sale on the internet if you cannnot provide the goods when purchased. This is poor management from the start and frustrating for customers. We have cancelled numerous orders when they are "backordered" I refuse to wait for weeks at a time for things I want.

The old ways of doing business are over and no company can survive in these days without good customer service. You have to have people who will follow thru and take care of customer needs. I don't blame the people who answer the phone at shopsmith they are very nice people but the management sets the tone and those people must be deaf. If you don't have the product in stock or enough to fill the orders that might come in--DON"T OFFER IT FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET. There are several reasons companies like Amazon have been successful they offer good prices, they ship fast and have a good return policy and they have the product on hand.

My advice to shopsmith--upgrade your company and get it right. Forget offering product you don't have on hand. Bring back your best selling ideas from the past that worked well for example your traveling academy and your sawdust sessions. It helps to see the shopsmith in action and gives rise to things I have never thought of.

[JPG]

It will be interesting to see if Amazon will last as long as ss has already. I know of no other mail/phone/online-order firm that doesn't charge shipping on back ordered items.

Perhaps I was fortunate to be ordering the right stuff, but not in stock items were shipped the next day(snatched from 'production').

I am curious if you totally gave up on the canceled back ordered items or obtained them elsewhere?

I am quite adamant that comparing ss to amazon is unrealistic. Amazon ONLY sells what is has in its hand(or a firm commitment from the ultimate shipper) and has little overhead other then temporarily stocking that what is being 'offered'.


They provide NO continuity(i.e. here today, gone tomorrow)[sorta like a fly by night operation] and have/impart no knowledge about their 'offerings'.

I agree ss is NOT all that we would like, but please do not compare them to the likes of Amazon!

[paulrussell]

The problem I see with Shopsmith sales and customer service is linked to two factors:

1) Lack of funds.
2) A split-personality with regard to the business model.

There is nothing Shopsmith can do about the first in the short term.

The second is more perplexing.

I have read multiple times that the "good old days" are over and the touring demonstrations are for the most part no longer an economically feasible option. Same goes with printed catalogs -- now a part of history just like the much-awaited annual Sears and Radio Shack catalogs.

I have heard many state that Shopsmith has declared that they are now an internet-based company. Sadly, the day-to-day business matters are still being handled as if they were a touring demonstration, printed catalog, telephone and mail-order company.

Well run internet-based companies have web pages that tell you whether or not an item is in stock. They send out automated updates on the progress of your order, especially in backorder situations. They keep their web pages up-to-date. They do not advertise things that no longer exist.

Here are some examples:

Out of the 14 reasons Shopsmith claims to be your lifelong woodworking partner, THREE are no longer valid: Travelling Academy, National Academy, and a lifetime catalog subscription. http://www.shopsmith.com/markvsite/partner.htm

Even though there are no more demonstrations or travelling academies, Shopsmith has web pages to sign up for notice of when they are going to be in my area. Many months ago, when I was first interested in a Shopsmith, I blindly filled out all those forms. I never got so much as an email from Shopsmith saying "Sorry, those programs have been discontinued."

An interested customer fills out contact information on an "internet-based business" web site asking for more information on a premium priced product and gets ZERO feedback. Nothing. Something tells me the model is broken.

So it leaves me wondering if Shopsmith has a plan, and if they are going to continue to stand with one foot in the past and the other forever testing the ground in front of them, afraid to set foot in the future.

EDIT: When I say "Shopsmith" above, I am referring to owners/management, not the folks answering the phones or packing the boxes.