Carriage Stop Ring, & Blade "Zero"

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:49 am

Observations on the use, abuse and disuse of the Carriage Stop Ring as it relates to "home" positioning of any saw blades on the 510/20. (New to me, prolly old hat to a lot of folks.)

In the process of installing my Lift-Assist I'm afraid I wasn't properly careful in all cases moving from horizontal to vertical modes, and my Carriage Stop Ring (CSR) became length-challenged. At some point it developed turtle-neck syndrome after having once too many times been the sole responsible element preventing metal-to-metal contact between the carriage and headstock upon transitioning the ways from horizontal to vertical orientation while the motor housing was essentially untethered to the ways except by gravity.
The heroic little plastic bagel did subsequently recover somewhat from the narrowing experience, but the event did leave him forever a changed band.

This became obvious when I was trying to cut a zero clearance insert (and some other zero-clearance items) and could not get repeatable "home" position for the saw blade(s) using the CSR only.
Then, whether because of the damage or just the imprecise nature of the setup, I realized I needed, or wanted, more accuracy (OhNo!).

Now, when I need it, upon a change of ZCI(Item) I slide headstock & carriage together as normal, but before trying to install the ZCI measure the blade position in the throat, from blade-side to throat edge. With caliper it is a snap to tap one side or tother in or out to get THE perfect reading (now known) to .001", lock everything down, finished.

Easy, no 'trial-n-error', sure, fast, and my Zero Clearance Items-- Inserts and Miter Express-- are staying ZC.
And the old way still works fine for non ZC setups.

Note on the caliper: using it I need only one measurement check- from the blade plate to the throat edge. It will always be the same per blade.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:28 am

I think you are advising that the stop ring got damaged and no longer works properly to preposition the carriage (with respect to the headstock) and that you now have to do that task another way.

You could also cut a block of wood to be used as a spacer is that block of wood was cut to the right size. Make all dimensions the same so you don't have to figure out which way to insert it between carriage and headstock. I think that is called fool proofing.

or

You could contact customer service and see if they would sell you a new rubber stop collar. Word of caution: the stop collars (for different models) are not all the same.

or

You can use the quill to adjust blade position so that it centers in the ZCI.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:42 am

Carriage Stop Ring - part No. 516667 sells for $2.99. The data I looked at shows the part will fit the 500, 510 and 520. http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/partscat/carriage510_520_expview.htm

Actually, I took the stop ring off of my 510 and operated like that for years. When finally discovered what the ring was for, ordered a new one. On that ring, I sliced the ring from end to end with a sharp knife. Now I can use the ring - or not, as desired. It just slips over the way tube - or off. I secure it with a strip of electrical tape.

SDSSmith · Post by **SDSSmith** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:29 am

charlese wrote:Carriage Stop Ring - part No. 516667 sells for $2.99. The data I looked at shows the part will fit the 500, 510 and 520. http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/partscat/carriage510_520_expview.htm

I am sure you meant 505 as the ring is too wide for a 500. The stop ring for the 500 is 504165.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:41 am

SDSSmith wrote:I am sure you meant 505 as the ring is too wide for a 500. The stop ring for the 500 is 504165.

According to the online catalog, this part 504165 is now known as 516666 and sells for a whopping $1.99.

The stop ring for the 505/510/520 (516667) shows to be on back order or built to order. I wonder if "build to order" means "cut a specific length off of a long roll".

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:54 am

SDSSmith wrote:I am sure you meant 505 as the ring is too wide for a 500. The stop ring for the 500 is 504165.

Service & Repair Parts Catalog

MARK V Models 505/510/520
Carriage Assembly

Tis easy indeed to overlook the 505 and think it says 500!

The 500 is 3/8" wide, and the 505...20 is 1 3/8" wide

Easily made from 2" pvc drain pipe.(the 500 is plastic).

Is this the turtle neck effect?

[ATTACH]9131[/ATTACH]

Wondered how the PO created that effect!

SDSSmith · Post by **SDSSmith** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:44 pm

JPG40504 wrote:
Service & Repair Parts Catalog

MARK V Models 505/510/520
Carriage Assembly

Tis easy indeed to overlook the 505 and think it says 500!

The 500 is 3/8" wide, and the 505...20 is 1 3/8" wide

Easily made from 2" pvc drain pipe.(the 500 is plastic).

Is this the turtle neck effect?

[ATTACH]9131[/ATTACH]

Wondered how the PO created that effect!

I have bought 510/520 machines that actually have the ring rolled back on itself like a turtleneck collar. About 20% of the510/520 machines I have bought, the owners have split the ring as charlese has described.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:26 pm

I just used a piece cut from a straight radiator hose. I like using one on each tube. If you use something too hard you can still break something if you forget to tighten the headstock lock when lifting to drill press mode.
One of the main things you want to do, is on an old one with a stop screw you want to be sure to remove the stop screw from the carriage completely and fling it out of the shop window...

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:01 pm

Went out and got a $0.61 1 1/2" pvc coupler and cut it as shown below. I mazde one 1 3/8" for Mark V and and 3/8" for Mark 5. I cut out about 1 1/8" to allow on/off. The ends needed to be ground to remove the high spots b4 cutting. Band saw made quick work of it.

[ATTACH]9132[/ATTACH]

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:16 pm

dusty wrote:I think you are advising that the stop ring got damaged and no longer works properly to preposition the carriage (with respect to the headstock) and that you now have to do that task another way.

You could also cut a block of wood to be used as a spacer is that block of wood was cut to the right size. Make all dimensions the same so you don't have to figure out which way to insert it between carriage and headstock. I think that is called fool proofing.
Like yours, my first considered option. Then I discovered how remarkably UNflat are the surfaces involved in a meeting between headstock and carriage. Too easy to make a slight mispositioning error and get less than perfect "Home" zero. Too, I was loath to dispense with the basic safety function of the plastic bagel.

or

You could contact customer service and see if they would sell you a new rubber stop collar. Word of caution: the stop collars (for different models) are not all the same.
I did look up the various part parts and decided I was now hooked on accuracy the likes of which is not available with that system. (Not to mention the hassle of replacing the thing on the way tube, or tampering with it. Consider that it makes contact in an extremely small contact patch.

or

You can use the quill to adjust blade position so that it centers in the ZCI.
A method I'd used in the past, and prefer now not to use, since I'm dealing with the Miter Express and don't want to widen the ZC with adjustment 'tests' even a little bit.

All perfectly valid options, normally.
But I was pleasantly surprised to find how fast and easy it is to make the one quick measurement upon installing a blade, with such delightful rewards afterwards for as long as a ZCI device were mounted. (And if I forget the 'one side' reading it takes but 4 or 5 seconds to mic the other side.) It can actually be quicker than trial-n-error centering.

Btw, thanks for the ideas. I'll save 'em.