vertical saw

[robinson46176]

Is he in your bathroom mirror too??? I don't feel so lonely now!

I don't know how many mirrors he is in but he is aging a lot from it and I notice that he often doesn't seem to want to make eye contact anymore.

[foxtrapper]

I don't see where this operation if sensibly approached and carried out (I avoided using the word "executed"... It would elicit the wrong kind of responses) should pose any greater threat than an equivalent cut in the horizontal position.

Really?

How do you propose to deal with the cut off piece on the top? Just let the blade fling it wherever it wants, or would you propose reaching up across a bare spinning blade with your hand and hold onto it?

Ever tried to slide a sheet of plywood across the floor when standing on end? Let me know if you manage to do it smoothly. The wood always catches and jumps, and you invariably lift the front (binding the blade), trying to get it to move.

Span a 4 foot wide sheet of ply with your arms and try to drag it sideways. Notice how close you are to the wood, and therefore the blade. That unshielded one. I've never put my chest and face that close to a blade when doing horizontal cuts.

Naw, I disagree, using a saw like that picture shows is a whole lot more dangerous than doing horizontal cuts, even on the same table saw.

[shipwright]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but since you ask specific questions:

1) As the cut progresses the top piece will present no binding risk until it approaches the end of the cut. By that time I would be standing at the outfeed end, pulling the two pieces through, one hand on each. Upward pressure by the hand on the top piece would prevent any binding. As the cut finishes, I would turn my attention to pulling the top piece free. At worst it's trailing edge would tend to kick away from the table but since there is no bind I would be in control of the piece and the blade would have no purchase. It certainly couldn't fling it anywhere.

2)I have a vertical plywood storage rack in my shop with a couple of strips of UHMW polyethylene on the floor. If you apply your pushing force in the right place, ie: below centre, a full sheet slides in as smooth as butter. On this saw setup you could use rollers and be even better.

3) There is no need at any time to span the sheet with one hand on each side. If that is how you envision doing this then I agree, it is lethal. You would start behind the sheet, pushing the sheet into the saw, then about 1/2 way through, you would move to the outfeed side and pull it through the rest of the way controlling both pieces.

I really see no problem if an experienced person approaches the operation and uses his head. Obviously someone did it successfully enough to get it published in "Shavings" in the first place. I'm sure others tried it before publishing it as well.

I still see advantages over standing behind a sheet in the horizontal position, bearing some of the material weight and trying to keep even pressure on both sides of the cut. I think the advantages multiply as the piece being cut off becomes smaller.

IMHO

Paul M

[JPG]

Really?

How do you propose to deal with the cut off piece on the top? Just let the blade fling it wherever it wants, or would you propose reaching up across a bare spinning blade with your hand and hold onto it?

Ever tried to slide a sheet of plywood across the floor when standing on end? Let me know if you manage to do it smoothly. The wood always catches and jumps, and you invariably lift the front (binding the blade), trying to get it to move.

Span a 4 foot wide sheet of ply with your arms and try to drag it sideways. Notice how close you are to the wood, and therefore the blade. That unshielded one. I've never put my chest and face that close to a blade when doing horizontal cuts.

Naw, I disagree, using a saw like that picture shows is a whole lot more dangerous than doing horizontal cuts, even on the same table saw.

Snagging(can be eliminated by applying force nearer the sliding surface(foot)). As Paul has already stated, you support the upper cutoff with your left hand.(I stand corrected! Right hand after moving to the out feed side!) The larger lower piece is already supported.

Yes the procedure is as Farmer has stated requires risk management.

But then let us consider the horizontal 'mode' for an identical cut. Even though the current 5xx tables are larger(and more numerous) than the 10ER table used in the original procedure, there is just not enough support on either the infeed or outfeed side for either the larger part nor the smaller cutoff piece.

Risk management aside, I see this as an easier way to cut sheet goods. So does HD etc., they just have a fancier version!

[wildcard]

If you do it with some thought and care i could see this being done fairly safely, however i cannot come up with a reason to do it considering that HD will cut my sheet stock down prior to leaving, for me at least, i just don't have room to store sheet stock in full sheets, so i only buy it when i have a specific project in mind, and already know how i need it cut, then get them to if nothing else cut it down to a manageable size.

The real issue i see with this is, when in vertical mode, there is nothing that locks it in place to keep it from suddenly "converting" back to horizontal, if to much force is applied to its vertical surface, say the weight of a sheet of plywood.

Granted this could be corrected with some form of wedge. But if this was not done i can envision all manor of horrible scenarios involving a fast spinning blade wedged between 2 surfaces while it is being bent by the weight of the headstock trying to lay down again. Best case it just slides out and takes a chunk of your plywood with it, but i can also see the blade shattering and sending all of its parts on separate vacations, some might go to see sunny head top, while others might prefer the rolling hills of torso, ect...

[Gene Howe]

I think I'll stick with my Skil saw and guide, thank you.

[JPG]

If you do it with some thought and care i could see this being done fairly safely, however i cannot come up with a reason to do it considering that HD will cut my sheet stock down prior to leaving, for me at least, i just don't have room to store sheet stock in full sheets, so i only buy it when i have a specific project in mind, and already know how i need it cut, then get them to if nothing else cut it down to a manageable size.

The real issue i see with this is, when in vertical mode, there is nothing that locks it in place to keep it from suddenly "converting" back to horizontal, if to much force is applied to its vertical surface, say the weight of a sheet of plywood.

Granted this could be corrected with some form of wedge. But if this was not done i can envision all manor of horrible scenarios involving a fast spinning blade wedged between 2 surfaces while it is being bent by the weight of the headstock trying to lay down again. Best case it just slides out and takes a chunk of your plywood with it, but i can also see the blade shattering and sending all of its parts on separate vacations, some might go to see sunny head top, while others might prefer the rolling hills of torso, ect...

Procedure on topic was created prior to common usage of carbide tipped blades. Back then saw blades had only one part which was securely attached to the driving shaft. Food for consideration!(risk management)

Your SS does not have a vertical lock? Granted it could be more 'solid', but tis one there.

[shipwright]

I'll stick with what I said above but to make it safer:
1) Two people - one at infeed side, one at outfeed side. This goes for the standard horizontal situation as well.
2) A cheap HF foot switch to kill the saw as the cut finishes or if something starts to concern you (before it develops into a problem)

This photo is in another thread, but it shows the UHMW slide bars I have in my plywood rack. They make putting full sheets away and taking them out much easier - and there's no "catching" at all. In the saw situation I would run a strip along the length of the bottom support.

[ATTACH]10418[/ATTACH]

Paul M

[JPG]

I'll stick with what I said above but to make it safer:
1) Two people - one at infeed side, one at outfeed side. This goes for the standard horizontal situation as well.
2) A cheap HF foot switch to kill the saw as the cut finishes or if something starts to concern you (before it develops into a problem)

This photo is in another thread, but it shows the UHMW slide bars I have in my plywood rack. They make putting full sheets away and taking them out much easier - and there's no "catching" at all. In the saw situation I would run a strip along the length of the bottom support.

[ATTACH]10418[/ATTACH]

Paul M

Now THAT is a slick idea!:);):D