Changeover bias

[wa2crk]

Hi Gang;
Recently I was reading the article on planer/jointers in the July 2010 issue of Wood magazine.
I constantly hear people on blogs and in person complaining about SS changeover time and how much of a pita it is. Actually, most of the ones I spoke to have never used a SS. Most of them got the info from their first wife's second cousin twice removed and related by marriage who used one for a few minutes!!
I was struck by one sentence which read in part " We found we could transform each machine in less thn a minute.And the more we used them the more efficient we got at making the change".
I wonder why professional tool reviewers don't give SS the same consideration for their changeovers?
Bill V

[dusty]

Hi Gang]And the more we used them the more efficient we got at making the change".[/I]
I wonder why professional tool reviewers don't give SS the same consideration for their changeovers?
Bill V

WE do make more change overs than many other users. However, changeover time has never been an issue for me. Furthermore, I believe that this time lost is not an issue unless time (profit) is an issue.

If you are operating in a hobby environment, all that I can say is RELAX MAN. Take your time and enjoy.

BTW If time is an issue, I think I can make most changeovers in less than a minute.

[wa2crk]

Dusty;
I can make the changeovers myself quickly. My intent was to illustrate an apparent bias among tool reviewers. My belief is that the SS woodworking course is not really a woodworking course but rather a course on how to set up your SS for the various modes of operation. Sort of a familiarization process.
Bil V

[robinson46176]

I keep saying over and over that I chose to equip my shop with Shopsmiths "because" of the ability to make setups, not "in spite" of them.
I have a Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw/sander and any change-overs on it take many times more time and effort to make than mode changes on the SS's. Change-overs on the planer also require a good sized batch of tools, not just one Allen wrench.
Having a small herd of SS's does help in keeping something sat up for several batches but I only went that route because I want to do some production work eventually.

[8iowa]

In a brief email exchange with Sandor Nagyszalanczy (Popular Woodworking) I had to point out the difference between "changeover" and "set-up". I explained that changeover on the shopsmith seldom takes two minutes with the 5/32" allen wrench the only tool. Further, I described set-up as the process that any woodworker, regardless of the type of tool, has to make in order to make a specific cut. Set-up may be as simple as precisely measuring the distance between the fence and the blade, or can be complex and time consuming in cases of dado, rabbits, miters, compound cuts, coves, and so forth. Sometimes set-ups require additional jigs and several test cuts on scrap wood before final cuts are made.

I was trying to point out to Nagyszalalanczy that set-ups on the Shopsmith are not much different than on any other stand alone tool, and that it is not fair to criticize the Shopsmith in this regard. Frankly, I doubt that I even "dented" his bias against Shopsmith.

[Ed in Tampa]

I think change over bias goes beyond just changing machine from one configuration to another. Change over bias extends to things like not being able to have a fixed height infeed or outfeed table because the SS table height changes. Or not being able to attach a drill press jig to the drill press and keep in place for 99% of the work done on the drill press. Or not being able to rig up a dust/chip collection system to the lathe and keep in place. Or not having the ability to sweeten up a cut by walking over to the disk sander and touching up the edge just a bit.

Read the articles they often cite various deficiencies in tools like a Plane which has a table height adjustment instead of Head height adjustment. They often don't cite that as the problem but rather say something like set up or adjustment rather than saying they don't like the fact the table height keeps changing making placement of infeed or outfeed aux tables a pain.

[dusty]

I think change over bias goes beyond just changing machine from one configuration to another. Change over bias extends to things like not being able to have a fixed height infeed or outfeed table because the SS table height changes. Or not being able to attach a drill press jig to the drill press and keep in place for 99% of the work done on the drill press. Or not being able to rig up a dust/chip collection system to the lathe and keep in place. Or not having the ability to sweeten up a cut by walking over to the disk sander and touching up the edge just a bit.

Read the articles they often cite various deficiencies in tools like a Plane which has a table height adjustment instead of Head height adjustment. They often don't cite that as the problem but rather say something like set up or adjustment rather than saying they don't like the fact the table height keeps changing making placement of infeed or outfeed aux tables a pain.

I absolutely agree with all of these examples of the "short comings". They are all typical of my shop. Why? Because I have a small hobby shop and do not have the space (and never will) for a raft of stand alone tools. If someone really needs all of those, in my opinion, they have only one choice - build a shop big enough to house them all.

I'd love to work in a shop that would make Norm jealous.

BTW Ed, you can have an outfeed table that is always in the plane of your main table if you really want one.

[Ed in Tampa]

I absolutely agree with all of these examples of the "short comings". They are all typical of my shop. Why? Because I have a small hobby shop and do not have the space (and never will) for a raft of stand alone tools. If someone really needs all of those, in my opinion, they have only one choice - build a soft big enough to house them all.

I'd love to work in a shop that would make Norm jealous.

BTW Ed, you can have an outfeed table that is always in the plane of your main table if you really want one.

dusty
You are right and both you and I are willing to make compromises to allow us to work in a small shop. But don't expect to find a magazine reveiwer sympathetic to this compromise. Ever notice how they always want the 5 hp and 2 tons of machine.

With that in mine what will they fault? Changeover however what they really don't like is the fact there is no real good way to have permanent in infeed and outfeed tables and they will also fault everything that prevents permanent setups.

I don't think you will ever find a magazine reviewer that will consider a Shopsmith as a worthy machine because of it.

[8iowa]

Originally posted by Ed in Tampa;

I don't think you will ever find a magazine reviewer that will consider a Shopsmith as a worthy machine because of it.

Ed, you may be a little too cynical too soon. Glen Huey of Popular Woodworking is testing a Power Pro Shopsmith. I think that we can be certain that there will be a published review.

[dusty]

Ed, you may be a little too cynical too soon. Glen Huey of Popular Woodworking is testing a Power Pro Shopsmith. I think that we can be certain that there will be a published review.

It is good to hear that Popular Woodworking is actually looking at a Shopsmith. If they do publish a review, I just hope that it is a full review of the Shopsmith and not just a review of those features brought about by the PowerPro.

Given a fair chance to be seen and evaluated, the Shopsmith will hold its own; especially if it is presented as a tool for the hobbyist who must reside in limited space.

On a level playing field, the Shopsmith will do well. In a "professional look alike" shop the stand alone will prevail.

I am ready, when can I get the magazine?