I'm making kitchen cabinets for our place and I'm to the point where I need to drill/route shelf pin holes. As an amatuer I'll not be drilling 1,200 holes every couple of months - I might use such a jig a couple times a year. I've looked at: Rockler's, Veritas (sp?), Hartville Tools, MEG Pro Bore (I think I've seen Norm use this puppy.), MEG Econo Bore and one DIY jig from the Woodworker's Gazette that I find very interesting. http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive9 ... lejig.html.
I'm leaning torwards this last jig. (Those jigs based on pegboard always seem really sloppy and Masonite is so soft that I'm sure the holes will be ellipses pretty quick.
From what I've read/heard it seems like routing will make cleaner holes. My wood is cut and finished already so clean holes are very desireable.
Anyway I wondered what jig you use and would recommend. Thanks for reading this and posting your thoughts.
Shelf Pins
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flashbacpt
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Shelf Pins
Berry,
I use Rockler's shelf pin unit. Like you, I am not drilling holes everyday. I have found that Rocklers meets my needs very nicely.
The thing about drilling shelf pin holes is relatively simple........you need some type of a jig to accomplish the task.
I have used the above to build doll cabinets, tool cabinets, and small storage units with great success.
Clean holes come as a result of a good sharp bradpoint drill bit. If I remember correctly, the Rocklers Jig comes with a IstyBit (sp?) that specifically fits/works with the Jig, or you buy the one recommended.
Finally, as with all jigs, there is a time to use them, and a time when it is too late to use them. Whatever jig you use, one must be able to set it up properly to drill holes. In most cases, all drilling is done before one assembles their work.
Also, with a shelf pin jig, double check both sides of your jig setup BEFORE you drill any holes. Depending on the jig, it can be easy to end up drilling holes that are misaligned to each other on each side of the cabinet.
Good Luck!
FlashbacPT;)
I use Rockler's shelf pin unit. Like you, I am not drilling holes everyday. I have found that Rocklers meets my needs very nicely.
The thing about drilling shelf pin holes is relatively simple........you need some type of a jig to accomplish the task.
I have used the above to build doll cabinets, tool cabinets, and small storage units with great success.
Clean holes come as a result of a good sharp bradpoint drill bit. If I remember correctly, the Rocklers Jig comes with a IstyBit (sp?) that specifically fits/works with the Jig, or you buy the one recommended.
Finally, as with all jigs, there is a time to use them, and a time when it is too late to use them. Whatever jig you use, one must be able to set it up properly to drill holes. In most cases, all drilling is done before one assembles their work.
Also, with a shelf pin jig, double check both sides of your jig setup BEFORE you drill any holes. Depending on the jig, it can be easy to end up drilling holes that are misaligned to each other on each side of the cabinet.
Good Luck!
FlashbacPT;)
Berry,
Considering I work with Nick (Engler) and he is the King of jigs, I would suggest, if you don't want to get in "debt" with a store bought jig, you just make one out of thick clear plexi-glass. All you have to do is make a few holes. I am sure if you have made these cabinets that you are more than capable of drilling a few holes in succession in plexi.
You can use it as a template for positioning your holes from the edge of the cabs and the spacing of the holes.
I find it so hard to believe that folks seem to see a problem such as yours and run to the local woodworking store for the solution. Almost everything in those stores can be hand made just like the predecessors to the store merchandise. After all, you saw a need to build cabinets, now you need holes. Drilling a few holes can not be any harder than that.
And in so far as the clean holes you require, you may have to go and buy some forstner bits. That is, unless you would like to learn forging and a whole lot of metallurgy.
Just a thought.
Be good,
Drew Achtermann
Considering I work with Nick (Engler) and he is the King of jigs, I would suggest, if you don't want to get in "debt" with a store bought jig, you just make one out of thick clear plexi-glass. All you have to do is make a few holes. I am sure if you have made these cabinets that you are more than capable of drilling a few holes in succession in plexi.
You can use it as a template for positioning your holes from the edge of the cabs and the spacing of the holes.
I find it so hard to believe that folks seem to see a problem such as yours and run to the local woodworking store for the solution. Almost everything in those stores can be hand made just like the predecessors to the store merchandise. After all, you saw a need to build cabinets, now you need holes. Drilling a few holes can not be any harder than that.
And in so far as the clean holes you require, you may have to go and buy some forstner bits. That is, unless you would like to learn forging and a whole lot of metallurgy.
Just a thought.
Be good,
Drew Achtermann
"When one has finished building one's house, one suddenly realizes that in the process one has learned something that one really needed to know in the worst way - before one began."
[INDENT][/INDENT]Friedrich Nietzsche
[INDENT][/INDENT]Friedrich Nietzsche
I make at least as many jigs as I do projects or at least it seems that way. And in this case I think making a jig would be a good project and can then be used for many more projects.
I will point out a few things to help you get a grip on the project. First you need to pick out what type of pin you want to use... not only are the styles and shapes different but so are the hole to mount them. A lot of these parts are moving to metric sizes which is fine but it makes getting the drill bits and or router bits harder, so you should be checked into that before getting the pins.
Router will cut very very nice holes. However you need bits designed to plunge. Standard bits are not designed to do this. Finding a smaller size two flute bit that plunges may even be impossible, unless you go to spirial bits of solid carbide. And again if you go metric or anything other then standard bits sizes things are going to be hard to find.
Brade point bits give a good clean but depending on what you are drill into and how many holes you need to make you might want to make sure you can buy single bits of that size as they don't last forever.
If you do make a jig remember that you need to mark it so that you can drill the holes all off the same reference. Any error you make in the hole spacing will then all line up... flip the jig over and the error becomes twice as big....
When doing the lay out for the holes use a ruler attached at one end and mark every inch or two or three that you need. DO NOT measure hole to hole, that is just asking for trouble. If you think you can give it a try and then measure the whole distance after say 3 feet... If you are within a 1/4" you are truely a craftsman. Of couse if you happen to have an incra jig you can always use that.
Say NO to any use of peg board for hole spacing. At best you might get lucky but anyone with any time around peg board knows that sometimes you can't even get the peg board hooks in a pair of holes so you have to move over or up or down to find a pair that are the right spacing. In fact if you go to one of the companies that makes peg board you can see what they say...
One last thing that I messed up on once was using a jig with 1" spacing but using every third hole... yea I messed up along the way and only went 2 holes. So to fix it I did the other set the same way and only I know it wasn't going to be that way. So some blue masking tape over the ones you are not going to use is a good idea.
Ed
I will point out a few things to help you get a grip on the project. First you need to pick out what type of pin you want to use... not only are the styles and shapes different but so are the hole to mount them. A lot of these parts are moving to metric sizes which is fine but it makes getting the drill bits and or router bits harder, so you should be checked into that before getting the pins.
Router will cut very very nice holes. However you need bits designed to plunge. Standard bits are not designed to do this. Finding a smaller size two flute bit that plunges may even be impossible, unless you go to spirial bits of solid carbide. And again if you go metric or anything other then standard bits sizes things are going to be hard to find.
Brade point bits give a good clean but depending on what you are drill into and how many holes you need to make you might want to make sure you can buy single bits of that size as they don't last forever.
If you do make a jig remember that you need to mark it so that you can drill the holes all off the same reference. Any error you make in the hole spacing will then all line up... flip the jig over and the error becomes twice as big....
When doing the lay out for the holes use a ruler attached at one end and mark every inch or two or three that you need. DO NOT measure hole to hole, that is just asking for trouble. If you think you can give it a try and then measure the whole distance after say 3 feet... If you are within a 1/4" you are truely a craftsman. Of couse if you happen to have an incra jig you can always use that.
Say NO to any use of peg board for hole spacing. At best you might get lucky but anyone with any time around peg board knows that sometimes you can't even get the peg board hooks in a pair of holes so you have to move over or up or down to find a pair that are the right spacing. In fact if you go to one of the companies that makes peg board you can see what they say...
One last thing that I messed up on once was using a jig with 1" spacing but using every third hole... yea I messed up along the way and only went 2 holes. So to fix it I did the other set the same way and only I know it wasn't going to be that way. So some blue masking tape over the ones you are not going to use is a good idea.
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Berry - you have received very good information from your question. I just want to add a little more.berry wrote:I'm making kitchen cabinets for our place and I'm to the point where I need to drill/route shelf pin holes. As an amateur I'll not be drilling 1,200 holes every couple of months - I might use such a jig a couple times a year. I've looked at: Rockler's, Veritas (sp?), Hartville Tools, MEG Pro Bore (I think I've seen Norm use this puppy.), MEG Econo Bore and one DIY jig from the Woodworker's Gazette that I find very interesting. http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive9 ... lejig.html.
I'm leaning torwards this last jig. (Those jigs based on pegboard always seem really sloppy and Masonite is so soft that I'm sure the holes will be ellipses pretty quick.
From what I've read/heard it seems like routing will make cleaner holes. My wood is cut and finished already so clean holes are very desirable.
Anyway I wondered what jig you use and would recommend. Thanks for reading this and posting your thoughts.
If you are going to build the jig from woodworking.org I can assume your cabinets are not yet assembled. Note: Their construction follows the advice given by reible. (to follow a ruler and mark out the spacing)
What I want to submit is there really is no need to fill your cabinets with a line of holes. I would think three holes on each side would be enough for each shelf. You can anticipate where the shelve(s) will be. You'll want to give just a couple of inches up or down to adjust a shelf for different contents. So the anticipated hole will be at the center location and the others up 2" and the other down 2". (Other spacings may be appropriate) You may reason you only need one extra hole per shelf, rather than 2. I have found is equally spaced shelves usually don't get moved. If there is a need to move a shelf it is only a small amount.
So-- instead of measuring out a row of holes - I would grab a 3/4" x 4" piece and make it the same height as the cabinet. Mark one end as bottom and the other as top. Drill your main guide hole where you think the shelf should be. Drill the one or two other guide holes nearby the first one (measured of course!) Then use this stick as a template to drill all cabinets of the same size. (For different size cabinets - a new template) This method will assure you the shelf pin holes will be level to one another, and you don't have to drill so much! If you drill your guide holes in the center of your template - you can line up the edge of the template and the outside edge of your cabinet thereby making all holes in the cabinet 2" from the outside edge.
Don't worry too much about ruining the finish. A good sharp bit should serve you well!
Best wishes on your project.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
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Ed in Tampa
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charlese wrote:Berry - you have received very good information from your question. I just want to add a little more.
If you are going to build the jig from woodworking.org I can assume your cabinets are not yet assembled. Note: Their construction follows the advice given by reible. (to follow a ruler and mark out the spacing)
What I want to submit is there really is no need to fill your cabinets with a line of holes. I would think three holes on each side would be enough for each shelf. You can anticipate where the shelve(s) will be. You'll want to give just a couple of inches up or down to adjust a shelf for different contents. So the anticipated hole will be at the center location and the others up 2" and the other down 2". (Other spacings may be appropriate) You may reason you only need one extra hole per shelf, rather than 2. I have found is equally spaced shelves usually don't get moved. If there is a need to move a shelf it is only a small amount.
So-- instead of measuring out a row of holes - I would grab a 3/4" x 4" piece and make it the same height as the cabinet. Mark one end as bottom and the other as top. Drill your main guide hole where you think the shelf should be. Drill the one or two other guide holes nearby the first one (measured of course!) Then use this stick as a template to drill all cabinets of the same size. (For different size cabinets - a new template) This method will assure you the shelf pin holes will be level to one another, and you don't have to drill so much! If you drill your guide holes in the center of your template - you can line up the edge of the template and the outside edge of your cabinet thereby making all holes in the cabinet 2" from the outside edge.
Don't worry too much about ruining the finish. A good sharp bit should serve you well!
Best wishes on your project.
Chuck
You and I think alike. I never understood drilling the sides of cabinets with rows of holes. After years of learning I now usually drill one set of holes and I'm done with it. If I want to move the shelf I would simply drill another set of holes. However I have never done that once I had the cabinet installed and shelf placed where I initially wanted it.
I think we over plan and we also duplicate what we see done without thinking about it. Early on in my wood working I built a 10x8 book case that had four vertical columns. I routed and inlayed shelf brackets into the vertical columns so I would have adjustability. In 25 years I have never moved a shelf. Yet I have all the hardware, time and effort invested so I could. Further I hate the look of the shelf hardware even though it is inlayed in the case work.
If I was building the book case today I would mount the shelves at a fixed location and never look back. A custom cabinet is just that custom made to the intended use. Why build them like manufactured cabinets where one size fits all? They are CUSTOM.
Ed
Chuck and Ed - you're so right. Nothing says "factory made" more than those endless holes. I'll drill/route a couple of holes at each location IF I can get my sweetheart to agree.Ed in Tampa wrote:Chuck
If I was building the book case today I would mount the shelves at a fixed location and never look back. A custom cabinet is just that custom made to the intended use. Why build them like manufactured cabinets where one size fits all? They are CUSTOM.
Ed
And Drew certainly convinced me to make my own jig. What was I thinking of, sending yet more hard earned dollars into some corporate coffer.
Let me ask the group a related question. What type of shelf pins do you use/recommend? The .25" or the 5MM? The ones with the flats or the all round style? And some have that metal insert that goes in before the pin itself. What the advantage of that? Are any made in the USA?
Thank you all once more for your great suggestions!
Berry - To be honest I don't know the diameter - I use what I have ordered and then select the drill bit. I do prefer the flat ones though. Don't really have a reason. They just seemed to be a better idea. They leave the shelf just a little lower than the upper part of the pin.berry wrote:...Let me ask the group a related question. What type of shelf pins do you use/recommend? The .25" or the 5MM? The ones with the flats or the all round style? And some have that metal insert that goes in before the pin itself. What the advantage of that? Are any made in the USA?...
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
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paulmcohen
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What I have done is route a small shallow grove in the bottom of the shelf to hide the pins (then it does not matter what the shape) and prevent the shelf from moving.
I used a Dremel router with a template for alignment, it goes very quickly.
I used a Dremel router with a template for alignment, it goes very quickly.
Paul Cohen
Beaverton, OR
A 1982 500 Shopsmith brand upgraded to a Mark 7 PowerPro, Jointer, Bandsaw (with Kreg fence), Strip Sander, Ring Master and lots of accessories all purchased new
12" Sliding Compound Mitre Saw, 1200 CFM DC
Beaverton, OR
A 1982 500 Shopsmith brand upgraded to a Mark 7 PowerPro, Jointer, Bandsaw (with Kreg fence), Strip Sander, Ring Master and lots of accessories all purchased new
12" Sliding Compound Mitre Saw, 1200 CFM DC