Paint/Primer question

[jcraigie]

I remember reaeding somewhere on the forum about someone having problems with rusoleum primer (for rust I think) when they painted their machine. I don't remember who and I can't find the thread, who ever it is could you please let me know what the problem was I have several cans that I was going to use and now I'm waiting to make sure I don't screw it up.

Thanks

[mickyd]

I remember reaeding somewhere on the forum about someone having problems with rusoleum primer (for rust I think) when they painted their machine. I don't remember who and I can't find the thread, who ever it is could you please let me know what the problem was I have several cans that I was going to use and now I'm waiting to make sure I don't screw it up.

Thanks

I had a texture 'observation' in this post when top coating with Rustoleum Hammered rattle cans. Don't know if that's what you may be referring to. I didn't prime my metal parts. I only primed the aluminum and I used self-etching primer based on someones advise. Not POSITIVE it's needed.

Here's some other prime vs. unprimed info.

[jcraigie]

I had a texture 'observation' in this post when top coating with Rustoleum Hammered rattle cans. Don't know if that's what you may be referring to. I didn't prime my metal parts. I only primed the aluminum and I used self-etching primer based on someones advise. Not POSITIVE it's needed.

Here's some other prime vs. unprimed info.

Yep that's what I was looking at, I thought it was you but wasn't sure.

Have you heard anything negative about the "rusted metal primer" (rustoleum)? I have 5 cans of it at the house. I'll go get some self-etching if it works better. I didn't think the prime was needed but I'm not sure. My greenie is a early to mid 1954 (serial number starts 266) and the paint on the aluminum is flaking off - bad, but I don't see any primer on the back side of the paint and it's coming off clean. I want the paint to last, this is a project that my 12 year old son and I are doing and I hope to give it to him someday so I want to do it right.

He had a blast taking it apart. (my 16 year old just looked at us like we were nuts and walked away )

[mickyd]

Yep that's what I was looking at, I thought it was you but wasn't sure.

Have you heard anything negative about the "rusted metal primer" (rustoleum)? I have 5 cans of it at the house. I'll go get some self-etching if it works better. I didn't think the prime was needed but I'm not sure. My greenie is a early to mid 1953 (serial number starts 3666) and the paint on the aluminum is flaking off - bad, but I don't see any primer on the back side of the paint and it's coming off clean. I want the paint to last, this is a project that my 12 year old son and I are doing and I hope to give it to him someday so I want to do it right.

He had a blast taking it apart. (my 16 year old just looked at us like we were nuts and walked away )

You know....I'm starting to think that I HAVE read something somewhere about not using rusted metal primer on something. I'll look later tonight or tomorrow. Going out for chow!!

[jcraigie]

You know....I'm starting to think that I HAVE read something somewhere about not using rusted metal primer on something. I'll look later tonight or tomorrow. Going out for chow!!

Hmmmm. I think I found it on the Rustoleum site FAQ's. In short no rust = paint won't stick well. (fish oil in primer - whoda thunk it?)

Q Can I use Rusty Metal Primer on clean metal?
A No. The fish oil that is in the primer needs to penetrate into rust to seal out air and moisture. If there is no rust, the oil will rise to the surface making adhesion of the finish coat difficult.

I'll try to trade in the rusty metal primer for self-etching, white, or aluminum primer at HD (even exchange they are usually pretty good about).

Thanks for the help mickyd

[mickyd]

Hmmmm. I think I found it on the Rustoleum site FAQ's. In short no rust = paint won't stick well. (fish oil in primer - whoda thunk it?)

Q Can I use Rusty Metal Primer on clean metal?
A No. The fish oil that is in the primer needs to penetrate into rust to seal out air and moisture. If there is no rust, the oil will rise to the surface making adhesion of the finish coat difficult.

I'll try to trade in the rusty metal primer for self-etching, white, or aluminum primer at HD (even exchange they are usually pretty good about).

Thanks for the help mickyd

Seems like somebody came across that exact info about a year ago..... Found it!! I KNEW it sounded familiar.
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=56721&postcount=13

[jcraigie]

Seems like somebody came across that exact info about a year ago..... Found it!! I KNEW it sounded familiar.
https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=56721&postcount=13

Wow that guy is really smart!

[ddvann79]

That guy IS a pretty smart feller. It makes sense that fish oil would cause fish eye!

I can't speak of the rust converter paint to which you are referring for this particular application. I have used it in the past on it's intended target of metal covered in rust and found it to work fairly well. However, I think it was only intended for short term use because I can remember several instances where the paint job only lasted 2 to 5 years. The short-lived application was on a lawn mower while the five-year life was on outdoor metal furniture from the 50's. However, these items lived outside, unlike your Shopsmith.

I've done some test of my own with self etching primer and found that regardless of whether the primer was applied or not, the paint developed the hammered finish better on rougher metal, like the cast aluminum. This is a similar result mickydgot on his prime vs. no prime test but I decided to take it a step further and see how it worked on the cast aluminum. CAVEAT: I was testing the Hammered Gold and Copper, not the Verde Green and Silver. The difference in tint may or may not make a difference - I just don't have any experience with the Greenie paints.

You have to apply multiple coats, one way or another and I got these results whether I used the primer or not. After the first coat over the primer goes on, you have a new, relatively smooth surface. IMHO, this is where you are really concerned with how well the hammered finish develops. I had to spray only surfaces that were laying horizontally because the amount of paint that is required to develop that finish in the second coat is so heavy it runs. Maybe I don't have the finesse of mickyd or JPG. They don't seem to have the same problem. Sometimes you can't get around spraying on vertical surfaces, so I would blow on the paint when it started to sag and it set the surface of the paint enough to hold it in place long enough for the finish to develop. I didn't get that lucky every time and have had to sand off some runs and redo it. It's not too onerous, it just takes a few days.

Oh, last thing: the nozzle tip sprays a long, vertical ellipse so if you spray up and down (with can vertical), you will get a MUCH thicker coat than if you spray side to side. So don't do that. Maybe other spray paint does this too, I don't know.

[JPG]

That guy IS a pretty smart feller. It makes sense that fish oil would cause fish eye!

I can't speak of the rust converter paint to which you are referring for this particular application. I have used it in the past on it's intended target of metal covered in rust and found it to work fairly well. However, I think it was only intended for short term use because I can remember several instances where the paint job only lasted 2 to 5 years. The short-lived application was on a lawn mower while the five-year life was on outdoor metal furniture from the 50's. However, these items lived outside, unlike your Shopsmith.

I've done some test of my own with self etching primer and found that regardless of whether the primer was applied or not, the paint developed the hammered finish better on rougher metal, like the cast aluminum. This is a similar result mickydgot on his prime vs. no prime test but I decided to take it a step further and see how it worked on the cast aluminum. CAVEAT: I was testing the Hammered Gold and Copper, not the Verde Green and Silver. The difference in tint may or may not make a difference - I just don't have any experience with the Greenie paints.

You have to apply multiple coats, one way or another and I got these results whether I used the primer or not. After the first coat over the primer goes on, you have a new, relatively smooth surface. IMHO, this is where you are really concerned with how well the hammered finish develops. I had to spray only surfaces that were laying horizontally because the amount of paint that is required to develop that finish in the second coat is so heavy it runs. Maybe I don't have the finesse of mickyd or JPG. They don't seem to have the same problem. Sometimes you can't get around spraying on vertical surfaces, so I would blow on the paint when it started to sag and it set the surface of the paint enough to hold it in place long enough for the finish to develop. I didn't get that lucky every time and have had to sand off some runs and redo it. It's not too onerous, it just takes a few days.

Oh, last thing: the nozzle tip sprays a long, vertical ellipse so if you spray up and down (with can vertical), you will get a MUCH thicker coat than if you spray side to side. So don't do that. Maybe other spray paint does this too, I don't know.

Can't speak for Mike, but I do occasionally get the runs!:D

Re that elliptical spray pattern - try rotating the can!(45°)

I have found that I be more successful by only painting a surface at a time. That allows me to avoid the vertical problem. About a half hour between applications, but you cannot rotate the target onto fresh paint. Also if you have applied several coats(thick) it will flow even a week or more later if you set it on something(like its power cord).

[mickyd]

Can't speak for Mike, but I do occasionally get the runs!:D

Re that elliptical spray pattern - try rotating the can!(45°)

I have found that I be more successful by only painting a surface at a time. That allows me to avoid the vertical problem. About a half hour between applications, but you cannot rotate the target onto fresh paint. Also if you have applied several coats(thick) it will flow even a week or more later if you set it on something(like its power cord).

I managed to get my process down where I was able to spray horizontal / vertical without runs. Lots of practice sprays to get it speed correct helped.