Complete Shopsmith

[JPG]

The verbage that others have used for this discussion is buried here. Read "Usage Restrictions".

Parts of it are written in legalize but it is there if you read carefully.

Whatever Shopsmith intended it is dependent upon the legal meaning of the word commercial.

If I advertise that I have merchandise for sale on eBay, I definitely have an intent to sell that item to a buyer. Is that a commercial communication?.

If I casually mention that there is a Mark V for sale on eBay just like the one you said you were interested in buying, is that a commercial transaction OR is it just weasel words being used to bypass the restriction.

If I say, "That is not permitted here". "That's a BAD". " PM me". Well......you decide.

Over the past two or three years there have been many conversations about this. I believe that during this time Shopsmith has probably benefited significantly by the actions of the members of this forum. The forum has helped by encouraging users, helping users recover their older machines, talking users through recovery from failures. I doubt that the forum has made any contribution that has affected Shopsmith negatively even the occasionalcommunication about hardware for sale.

I just don't do it on the forum but I have purchased items that I became aware of as a direct result to the forum.

Personally, I believe that Shopsmith would benefit directly by having a "Trading Post" where we could all conduct these business transactions openly.

No one can take issue with the 'commercialization' factor although some may disagree with Dusty's ' definition of casual user's being commercial(actually I agree with him).

It is the following paragraph that many folks seem to be ignoring.

"Not that posting some extra items that you have sitting around falls into those categories however, if we let one person do it, we can't really make an arguement to keep others from doing it."

That cannot be misinterpreted! He be saying we do not want ANYONE doing it.

In spite of agreeing with Dusty re the 'commercial' definition, I still believe the 'I need' post is different. It is the 'public' response( I got one 4sale) that crosses the 'line'.

I agree a 'trading Post' would be an improvement over the tippy toeing around, but sadly I unnerstand why it is discouraged. Evernotice the prevalence of 'posters' with 4sale message having less than 5 posts(usually the first).

IMHO the vast majority of the participants(lurkers included) would not take undue advantage of a trading post, but as is all too common nowadays the few mavericks force the sponsor to exclude everyone!

[Ed in Tampa]

Interesting discussion!
However since all of us want Shopsmith to succeed there is one thing we must consider.
For every Shopsmith part sold external to Shopsmith is a lost sale to Shopsmith. Surely we don't expect Shopsmith to go into competition with itself by sponsoring a place to buy and sell products it to is trying to sell.

Frankly I get a little confused by people that are so vehement about "helping" Shopsmith and then openly admit they often bypass Shopsmith by shopping for their Shopsmith need on EBay and etc.

It is this same thinking that has most of our products coming from other countries. We all want to support the American worker but when it comes time to put our money where are mouth is we go with the cheapest price.

Remember every sale of Shopsmith equip on Ebay takes that sales profit from Shopsmith. We already saw where they no longer can afford Nick how long do you think it will take until they can't afford to keep spare parts on hand or their excellent customer service staff that helps answer all our questions?

My two cents if I have offend anyone let say I'm sorry but we have to consider all the consequences of our actions not just what meets our immediate goal.

[dusty]

Interesting discussion!
However since all of us want Shopsmith to succeed there is one thing we must consider.
For every Shopsmith part sold external to Shopsmith is a lost sale to Shopsmith. Surely we don't expect Shopsmith to go into competition with itself by sponsoring a place to buy and sell products it to is trying to sell.

Frankly I get a little confused by people that are so vehement about "helping" Shopsmith and then openly admit they often bypass Shopsmith by shopping for their Shopsmith need on EBay and etc.

It is this same thinking that has most of our products coming from other countries. We all want to support the American worker but when it comes time to put our money where are mouth is we go with the cheapest price.

Remember every sale of Shopsmith equip on Ebay takes that sales profit from Shopsmith. We already saw where they no longer can afford Nick how long do you think it will take until they can't afford to keep spare parts on hand or their excellent customer service staff that helps answer all our questions?

My two cents if I have offend anyone let say I'm sorry but we have to consider all the consequences of our actions not just what meets our immediate goal.

Ed, it is a matter of pure economics. If Shopsmith wants and needs our exclusive support when purchasing parts, they could get it by making their prices more competitive. Their parts prices do not suggest that this is their business objective.

Extreme Examples: Flat Washer (514466) - $.80 plus shipping, Motor 515098) - $407.81 plus shipping:eek:, Speed Control Box (514736) - $324.53 plus shipping:eek:. There is no research and development cost associated with these parts. That was recovered long ago.

[JPG]

Interesting discussion!
However since all of us want Shopsmith to succeed there is one thing we must consider.
For every Shopsmith part sold external to Shopsmith is a lost sale to Shopsmith. Surely we don't expect Shopsmith to go into competition with itself by sponsoring a place to buy and sell products it to is trying to sell.

. . .

Remember every sale of Shopsmith equip on Ebay takes that sales profit from Shopsmith. We already saw where they no longer can afford Nick how long do you think it will take until they can't afford to keep spare parts on hand or their excellent customer service staff that helps answer all our questions?

My two cents if I have offend anyone let say I'm sorry but we have to consider all the consequences of our actions not just what meets our immediate goal.

And yet 'admin' says: "Selling your items on eBay will probably be your best bet, just be careful of our trademarks and copyrights or else I will get you there too"

This tells me SS not be overly concerned re the selling of used parts on E-Bay. Especially when they go for ridiculously high prices(+ excessive shipping charges).

As far as 'losing a Mark X sale', any one considering purchasing a used one at the 'going rate' is not likely to be a serious contender for a new one. However, that person may as a result of purchasing the used one buy new SPT's for it(or an update, or actually spring for a new one). Ain't no guarantees what folks do anywhere anyway.

[cincinnati]

A company has to be careful who they let do what. If you let one group do something then you can't refuse another group to do the same.

Say you have a store and you let an organization of kids sell candy in front of your store. Then you must let any other organization (who could be an org. that represents your direct competition ) solicit in front of your store.

[JPG]

A company has to be careful who they let do what. If you let one group do something then you can't refuse another group to do the same.

Say you have a store and you let an organization of kids sell candy in front of your store. Then you must let any other organization (who could be an org. that represents your direct competition ) solicit in front of your store.

Sad but unfortunately true.

[judaspre1982]

=========================

[dusty]

In earlier posts , when the forum was new , Admin was asking for new subjects to expand the forums. At that time a trading/selling category was never brought up. The link I posted from Admin was from a later thread on selling items on the SS site and it is plain to see, from the response, how SS feels on the subject. I don't think their position has changed.

I belong to a boating forum which is one of the largest in the country.
It is a free site , but they have a "boats for sale" section strictly for selling boats. If you want to sell using this section of their forums you must pay an annual fee of $15.00. This is one way SS could benefit by adding a trading post section, but that is strictly up to SS.
I could see them adding a trading post for items they no longer support.I can't see them allowing sales that directly compete for their business on a site they provide to us for free. As stated ,there are other outlets to get any parts needed for our machines outside of buying directly from SS, if one chooses.
Until SS tells us otherwise, I think out of respect/courtesy for SS , we should go with the wishes stated in Admin's post, which is titled No selling please

Dave

I wholeheartedly agree that since we have been told "no selling on the forum" that we should not sell or attempt to sell on the forum.

However, that concession does not mean that I believe this is good policy. Telling me I can not sell on the forum and in the same breathe telling me to do it on eBay instead seems to be contradictory philosophy.

But I expressed myself way back then and the policy is still the same so my opinion means little to nothing. So be it.

[Ed in Tampa]

And yet 'admin' says: "Selling your items on eBay will probably be your best bet, just be careful of our trademarks and copyrights or else I will get you there too"

This tells me SS not be overly concerned re the selling of used parts on E-Bay. Especially when they go for ridiculously high prices(+ excessive shipping charges).

As far as 'losing a Mark X sale', any one considering purchasing a used one at the 'going rate' is not likely to be a serious contender for a new one. However, that person may as a result of purchasing the used one buy new SPT's for it(or an update, or actually spring for a new one). Ain't no guarantees what folks do anywhere anyway.

I think the mention of EBay is a courtesy rather than an endorsement.
Admin when he mentioned EBay I believe is simply trying to be helpful in the usual Shopsmith Customer Service way. I don't think the mention of Ebay to be an endorsement or inducement.

Dusty mentioned repair part prices as a sign Shopsmith wasn't looking for repair/maintaince business. I agree the cited prices are outrageous! However in the past when I said some Shopsmith prices are totally outrageous everyone sort of gave me the stinkeye.

I find the price of the Power Pro so outrageous it is upsetting to me. The total package can't cost SS more than $500. I believe in a fair profit but that is a bit much. If the package cost between $800-$1000 it would be expensive but not totally ridiculous.

[JPG]

I think the mention of EBay is a courtesy rather than an endorsement.
Admin when he mentioned EBay I believe is simply trying to be helpful in the usual Shopsmith Customer Service way. I don't think the mention of Ebay to be an endorsement or inducement.

Dusty mentioned repair part prices as a sign Shopsmith wasn't looking for repair/maintaince business. I agree the cited prices are outrageous! However in the past when I said some Shopsmith prices are totally outrageous everyone sort of gave me the stinkeye.

I find the price of the Power Pro so outrageous it is upsetting to me. The total package can't cost SS more than $500. I believe in a fair profit but that is a bit much. If the package cost between $800-$1000 it would be expensive but not totally ridiculous.

At the least it indicates a tolerance for it. They used it themselves (both directly and by way of a third party) for a time.

Any body know what teknatool gets for a replacement motor? May alter the '$500' estimate!!!