Table saw alignment question.

[dlbristol]

At the very end of my Christmas Gift work, I started to see a slight misalignment on the table saw. ( most of the work I was doing was on stock 1.5 in wide , and I didn't notice the problem there) When I did a wider crosscut, I was getting slightly less than 1/16 in out of square on a 10 in cut. Miter gauge is square to the blade. I checked the slot to the blade and that is where the error is. I checked all the bolts, they were tight. I have not had any thing happen to the saw that I know about. No pounding or dropping, did that once. What are the ways that this can happen? I am doing maintenance and will check all the setups, but I would like to know if I am doing something to cause this. Shop is unheated when not in use, and we get 30-40 degree temp changes. Could that be an issue?

[JPG]

At the very end of my Christmas Gift work, I started to see a slight misalignment on the table saw. ( most of the work I was doing was on stock 1.5 in wide , and I didn't notice the problem there) When I did a wider crosscut, I was getting slightly less than 1/16 in out of square on a 10 in cut. Miter gauge is square to the blade. I checked the slot to the blade and that is where the error is. I checked all the bolts, they were tight. I have not had any thing happen to the saw that I know about. No pounding or dropping, did that once. What are the ways that this can happen? I am doing maintenance and will check all the setups, but I would like to know if I am doing something to cause this. Shop is unheated when not in use, and we get 30-40 degree temp changes. Could that be an issue?

Is it possible the table moved relative to the trunion while it was dis-mounted from the carriage? Set down less than 'gracefully' or bumped while 'laying around'. Getting bumped sideways while mounted is another possibility. Which way is it 'off'. That might provide a clue.

[dusty]

I don't understand!

You report that the "miter gauge is square to the blade" while at the same time saying that the "miter slot is not square to the blade".

The table alignment procedure calls for slot to blade alignment and does not involve the miter gauge. Align the table to the blade as JPG has suggested and then adjust your miter gauge (which must be out of alignment).

Now I do not do this alignment the way the procedure calls for. I align the table to the blade while depending on the V120 miter gauge installed in the miter slot and using an 10" square block.

I lay the block on the table, slide it up against the blade (without paying attention to the gap), position the miter gauge against the block and clamp it there. The miter gauge in conjunction with the square block is now my control reference. With the trunnions bolts loose, I now reposition the table so that the blade is tight against the square block.

Tighten the trunnions bolts. Recheck for firm fit of the blade to the square block and alignment is complete.

The table is now square to the blade with whatever degree of accuracy you have in the miter gauge and the 12" square block.

[Ed in Tampa]

I have long believed that where you grab your Shopsmith to move it around in the shop can and does effect the alignment.

Typically is very easy and convenient to grab the main table and sort of wheel the SS around. I have proven to myself repeatedly that doing so will effect the alignment. The main support tubes and trunions can be tweaked ever so slightly and when this is repeated over and over the alignment is eventually shifted.

It is a hard habit to break since the table are usually as grab height and so just there to grab and move the machine around with.

I now only move my SS by pushing pulling the way tubes and power head. I try never to push or pull against the main or aux tables.

I think ideally the best place to grab the SS to move it is probably the Accesory Lock mount assembly ( the height adjust for the Aux table).

[dusty]

You may well have a very valid point, Ed. I hardly ever move my Mark V anymore. After many shop layout changes, I have finally settled on permanent locations, especially for the Mark V and the ProPlaner.

[JPG]

I have long believed that where you grab your Shopsmith to move it around in the shop can and does effect the alignment.

Typically is very easy and convenient to grab the main table and sort of wheel the SS around. I have proven to myself repeatedly that doing so will effect the alignment. The main support tubes and trunions can be tweaked ever so slightly and when this is repeated over and over the alignment is eventually shifted.

It is a hard habit to break since the table are usually as grab height and so just there to grab and move the machine around with.

I now only move my SS by pushing pulling the way tubes and power head. I try never to push or pull against the main or aux tables.

I think ideally the best place to grab the SS to move it is probably the Accesory Lock mount assembly ( the height adjust for the Aux table).

I totally agree with that!!!! Just make sure it is not too close to 'loose'!

I also always move the table by pushing directly on the carriage.

When possible, the trunion is the hand hold, but not always. I usually rotate table to 'drill press position' prior to removal.

FWIW all that applies to the smaller Goldie M5. The 510 is still languishing in the 'to do' pile.

BTW Howcum? The 10E table is smaller, but gee is it ever heavier! Must have something to do with the CI trunion and steel posts. Tis 'almost' as heavy as the 510 table etc.



Gee Dusty it must be easier to remember where you left the MV and ProPlaner if you do not move them!:D Now all you need to remember is where you are!:rolleyes:

[keakap]

I totally agree with that!!!! Just make sure it is not too close to 'loose'!

I also always move the table by pushing directly on the carriage.
...:

2 cents: I agree with all of the above, and may I add-- besides taking every possible precaution to NOT grab the table(s) to move anything be also careful to not lean on or against the table or rails while cutting. If your main table is not tied (anchored) to the Ext table for rigidity (saw platform support equals 4 legs, not just 2) the Main table will move when pressured even a little.
Perhaps running the larger workpiece thru added just enough of you to the picture to deflect the workpiece a tad. Doesn't take much.
[a f'rinstance: I can get a cut on the end of a 2x4 that is actually rounded to the nekkid eye if I don't keep lateral pressure in ONE direction only on my miter gauge because my miter slots are that sloppy.]

[dlbristol]

Hey guys, thanks for the reply. I am still not exactly sure what happened, but I at least have some better information to work with. Your question/ ideas were helpful. I have not moved the SS, but Like most of you, I think moving it can cause problems. I wonder now if this was a table alignment problem. here is what I think I learned.
1. I used my Stanley combo square to check the miter to blade. I have come to question it's accuracy. I used framing square (not a great tool for this I know) to check and get a different smaller error. I will get a better set up square!
2. I used the miter gauge with the hex wrench in the holes to check the blade to slot being parallel. This time I had little if any detectable error with this method. I don't think it is a table/ blade issue. Dusty, where did you get the block you use?
3. My miter gauge was not square, and I did not check that because I had just set it. I probably had that set wrong with the square, and I am having trouble getting it to stay square when tightened so that may have added some to the problem. Add to that the possible error with the square, I think I have several issues going on at once.
4, There is a good possibility that the stock I was using has issues with the edges. I get some variation based on where the square is placed on some test stock I was using.
I ran out of time to do more "cussing and discussing" so I will keep you posted. Thanks for the direction.

[JPG]

Acquired this 'test' on another thread(or someplace foreign) that eliminates a square from the mix. However it does depend upon the slots being parallel to the face of the blade.

Take a board with a good straight edge, align that edge to the miter gauge face, mark the edge on both sides of where you will be cutting, and mark them l/r of the blade(provides an after cut reference). Proceed to cut it at a right angle(or at least what you think is!).

Position the two halves on a flat surface. Position the marked edges down and the cut ends together. align the bottom edges of the cuts. If the miter gauge is not 90 degrees, the cuts will not align at the top.

If the left board is short at the top, the miter gauge needs to be rotated ccw as viewed from the top. Annnd vice versa!

The wider the board the more accurate the 'test'(and more prone to frustration if trying to get it 'perfect')!:eek::D

[dusty]

Acquired this 'test' on another thread(or someplace foreign) that eliminates a square from the mix. However it does depend upon the slots being parallel to the face of the blade.

Take a board with a good straight edge, align that edge to the miter gauge face, mark the edge on both sides of where you will be cutting, and mark them l/r of the blade(provides an after cut reference). Proceed to cut it at a right angle(or at least what you think is!).

Position the two halves on a flat surface. Position the marked edges down and the cut ends together. align the bottom edges of the cuts. If the miter gauge is not 90 degrees, the cuts will not align at the top.

If the left board is short at the top, the miter gauge needs to be rotated ccw as viewed from the top. Annnd vice versa!

The wider the board the more accurate the 'test'(and more prone to frustration if trying to get it 'perfect')!:eek::D

This is an excellent way to test a cut for square and especially if what you want to true up is the miter gauge. Corrections are very easy to make. All you need is a few pieces of lumber to turn to saw dust:rolleyes:.

However, if you need to true the table to the blade, this could be a very time consuming process.

BTW Why do I want to eliminate the square from the mix?