Power Pro 'Review'

horologist · Post by **horologist** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:03 pm

Chuck,
Hope all works well now. I once spent several frustrating months trying to tune a PID controller. At least Wes didn't have to wait a couple of hours for a bank of compressors to fill an air storage tank between tests.

Troy

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:35 pm

Now I can truly give a more complete review of my PowerPro. I will try to keep this short but complete!

Most importantly - My PowerPro is now working exactly as advertised in all the functions in my shop! These are - 11" sanding disk, vertical drilling with forstner bits, jointer, rip sawing and cross cutting, horizontal drilling (brad point bits), belt sander, strip sander and best of all bandsawing. That is all I tested so far, but believe there will be no issues with routing or shaping.

The folks at Shopsmith are totally competent and have fulfilled their warranty, in Spades.

You don't have to read any farther unless you want to know what was repaired on my PowerPro unit.

Concerning the repair - It took SS just a few days less than a month to get the unit working properly with the bandsaw. You may remember I sent it in for repair because of pulsing, and banging noises when applying turning pressure on a bandsaw blade. The good news I quickly received was that my installation was well done. Whew! Thought I did everything correctly, but doubts do creep in.

First replaced were all of the bearings (they were new but noisy) - the motor, power supply and control panel were all removed and bench tested. They tested as good! The machine was still pulsing so the Power Factor Correction Coil was replaced. The coil replacement didn't end the pulsing. At this time I'll bet they were really scratching their heads.

To cut to the chase - further time and research into probable issues and fixes, brought about a complete replacement of all PowerPro components. Then both Wes and Jim McCann worked for a few days to figure the proper codes into the control panel. My supposition is these numbers are the "PID controller" (reference two posts ago)

What is most interesting to me is - although all new parts were in the headstock, motor pulsing was still happening. It must have been some kind of relationship between that particular headstock frame and the electronics.

Conversation with my Son (engineer making airplane parts) has told me the problems they have had with brushless motors have nearly all been Hall Effect and PID controller related. Reading (actually scanning) the link to PID Controllers has enlightened me toward Wes' problems of giving a fix to some problems over the phone.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:46 pm

hdtran wrote:.... here are some of my questions: (I'm actually intending to call Shopsmith & ask them these questions)

(1) Are the spindle bearings (quill bearings) of the same quality as the older headstock?
(2) How hard to rotate the spindle by hand with the power off?
(3) With the heavier weight, is it significantly harder to slide back & forth on the way tubes?
(4) Sounds like there may have been issues with the early adopters and the bandsaw, or did I misunderstand?
(5) Pushbutton interface intuitive? (Would it have been better to have a speed dial, for example?)
(6) Any mishaps going into reverse by accident? (fat finger push?)
(7) If firmware needs to be updated, is that a "ship the unit back" update, or is it a DIY "replace this chip" sort of update? (Can the firmware be updated?)

1)Bearings are of same or better quality than older headstocks.(IMO)
2)Spindle rotates easily by hand (two fingers) with power off
3)It is harder to slide back and forth on the way tubes, but not significantly
4)Issues are unique to electronic units (hall effect and PID controllers
5)Push button or better touch pad controls are intuitive
6)one must push the confirm pad to get the machine to reverse. Higher reverse speeds will take two touches of the confirm pad. Is not easy to do a fat finger thing
7)firmware? Don't know what this is.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 am

You deserve a reward, Charlese, for your patience while waiting for this issue to be resolved. Your experience and Shopsmith's exposure to this specific set of problems have undoubtedly contributed to a better PowerPro for the future.

Thank you for being one of the first.

Talk about a fine tuned machine.

Firmware: that is one of my long term concerns. If the firmware needs to be changed to resolve some problem that might occur, it seems that that can only happen at the factory.

How many of these early machines are unique in that they have different firmware than do the others?

How do all of the many unique setup configurations adversely effect the PowerPros' equilibrium? Unique not just by Shopsmith design but also by the users unique applications.

doug45601 · Post by **doug45601** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:18 am

Still.... Can't help but wonder how my Powerpro units are in people garages, workshops etc. that "still" have the unidentifed problem/s? I know Shopsmith is working hard to put out a quality product and warrant's what they sell. All will be fixed ( but only if the problems are identified in a timely manner}

I'm on the list for the revisions model and or the referb's

hoagie · Post by **hoagie** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:55 am

Firmware - The fixed, usually small, programming or data code that internally controls a small electronic device. Some examples: any appliance that has an electronic control panel like your microwave or range. The newer multi-device remote controls. Mobile phones, digital cameras and home theatre equipment all contain firmware.
Software developers may release updates to the firmware for their products. These updates may be a rewrite of the code to fix a specific user-reported problem, may add new features, or may just be a more efficient code design to improve the performance of the device.
For many firmware updates, the user downloads the update to their PC, then transfers the new firmware file to the target device using a USB cable or a flash drive.

HTH

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:11 am

hoagie wrote:Firmware - The fixed, usually small, programming or data code that internally controls a small electronic device. Some examples: any appliance that has an electronic control panel like your microwave or range. The newer multi-device remote controls. Mobile phones, digital cameras and home theatre equipment all contain firmware.
Software developers may release updates to the firmware for their products. These updates may be a rewrite of the code to fix a specific user-reported problem, may add new features, or may just be a more efficient code design to improve the performance of the device.
For many firmware updates, the user downloads the update to their PC, then transfers the new firmware file to the target device using a USB cable or a flash drive.

HTH

'Firmware' differs from 'software' in that it is written to semi-permanent memory(flash memory) that is only seldom altered(originally-b4 flash memory they were pluggable 'chips').

Software is loaded into ram(volatile) memory when needed. A loadable copy must reside externally(disk drive...).

An example of firmware is the bios code in most recent PCs.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:02 pm

JPG40504 wrote:'Firmware' differs from 'software' in that it is written to semi-permanent memory(flash memory) that is only seldom altered(originally-b4 flash memory they were pluggable 'chips').

Software is loaded into ram(volatile) memory when needed. A loadable copy must reside externally(disk drive...).

An example of firmware is the bios code in most recent PCs.

Excellent answer! Fantastic example (bios code)!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:47 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:Excellent answer! Fantastic example (bios code)!

OMG!:eek: The sky must be really falling this week!:D Good thing elephants can't fly!:rolleyes: ..............Thanks!;)

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:02 pm

[quote="JPG40504"]OMG!:eek: The sky must be really falling this week!:D Good thing elephants can't fly!:rolleyes: ..............Thanks!]Maybe it would be more appropriate to just accept his kind words and be thankful. Sarcasm will get you somewhere but maybe not where you want.