Table saw alignment question.

[dlbristol]

Again thanks for the information. I just finished shoveling the drive ( 8 inches of snow last night and more on the way), and it was 10 below at 7 AM so I am not going into the shop for a while! I did go out and get the manual and will read up on what it has to say. I am looking at getting a quality square, miterset, or perhaps the V120. Do you have any thoughts?

[dusty]

Hey guys, thanks for the reply. I am still not exactly sure what happened, but I at least have some better information to work with. Your question/ ideas were helpful. I have not moved the SS, but Like most of you, I think moving it can cause problems. I wonder now if this was a table alignment problem. here is what I think I learned.
1. I used my Stanley combo square to check the miter to blade. I have come to question it's accuracy. I used framing square (not a great tool for this I know) to check and get a different smaller error. I will get a better set up square!
2. I used the miter gauge with the hex wrench in the holes to check the blade to slot being parallel. This time I had little if any detectable error with this method. I don't think it is a table/ blade issue. Dusty, where did you get the block you use?
3. My miter gauge was not square, and I did not check that because I had just set it. I probably had that set wrong with the square, and I am having trouble getting it to stay square when tightened so that may have added some to the problem. Add to that the possible error with the square, I think I have several issues going on at once.
4, There is a good possibility that the stock I was using has issues with the edges. I get some variation based on where the square is placed on some test stock I was using.
I ran out of time to do more "cussing and discussing" so I will keep you posted. Thanks for the direction.

Dave, I apologize. I missed your question when I first read the post. The block that I use is a piece of 3/4" think aluminum that was milled for use in a piece of test equipment that I built during a previous life. It was, at one time, perfectly square. It was milled to be within .0001" for all dimensions and accurate to .025 degrees for all angles. It has been in my shop for several years and is no longer any where near that but still perfectly good for my use.

None of that is really important. A piece of MDF squared on the Shopsmith using an engineering square for the set up will produce what is required to do table saw alignments. I say MDF because it is more stable, just don't drop it.

[JPG]

. . .

BTW Why do I want to eliminate the square from the mix?

Merely as a suggestion since he was suspicious of his square(s)!;)

And also perhaps suggest an alternate to anyone 'lurking'.

This is a simplified version of a method presented in an earlier thread.

I believe it is reduced as far as possible.

I have found it to be more accurate than ME using a very good square!

I Am also suspicious of the potential error introduced by that miniscule deformation of the miter bar due to the expansion screw.

It also works quite well on the band saw!

[beeg]

Most defiantly get the QUALITY SQUARE.

[dusty]

Most defiantly get the QUALITY SQUARE.

I think we probably would agree - at least until we each presented what we each call a quality square.

Mine is a twenty year old framing square by Stanley. It has slid off of many roof tops at many different framing sites. However, I don't use it to perform equipment set ups.

[dlbristol]

I thought I would update this thread with what i have done since we last chatted. I got a set of engineers squares from Rockler. Accurate to ".00001" inches and a gauge to set the table parallel to the blade.
First issue, My Stanley tri-square is not square according to the new set, and I think that was most of the problem. I used the new squares to set the blade perpendicular to the table. Secondly, the table was out of alignment. Still don't now how it happened, but I am not grabbing the table to move it anymore.

Being too cheap to buy a complete set up for the dial indicator, I decided to try my hand at making one of my own. Using some scrap, a left over bolt and the SS miter extension bolts, I made this. These pictures are before I did some sanding, but you get the idea.

The bottom is angled at 15 degrees, mostly because I had that bevel on there from another project, but I wanted only the miter slot to be in contact with the table. The dial is connected to a bolt that is counter sunk and epoxied into the bottom. That piece is screwed into the face which mounts on the miter gauge. I found that I needed to make a small wedge to place under the dial to keep it steady. ( off center drilling ) I used it to set the table and it appears to have worked well. I did make one test cut, but ran out of time to really check carefully.

I plan to do the tests discussed here and if successful, I will build a block like Dusty uses. Lots of learning and it was fun! TApping that table around and watching that dial is ( for me at least) counter intuitive. I see why you use the block!!;) I would like to say I planned this, but I am a semi honest man!
By turning the whole unit around and going in from the out-feed side of the table, it appears that I can use this to align the fence as well. Thanks for the help.

[dlbristol]

I forgot to mention that after trying the multi-purpose blade, I mounted my plywood blade and found that it seemed to be much easier to get an consistent surface to measure from. I messed around with this blade and was able to turn the blade a full turn or slide the gauge the full distance across the blade and get a very consistent reading. As is often the case with me, I am not sure exactly what I was seeing! Again it was fun, educational and I am learning a bunch. All together, I think I spent $40 or so on this whole thing. I am going to see if I can get a really good tri-square for layout. My new squares do not have a scale on them.

[dusty]

[quote="dlbristol"]I thought I would update this thread with what i have done since we last chatted. I got a set of engineers squares from Rockler. Accurate to ".00001" inches and a gauge to set the table parallel to the blade.
First issue, My Stanley tri-square is not square according to the new set, and I think that was most of the problem. I used the new squares to set the blade perpendicular to the table. Secondly, the table was out of alignment. Still don't now how it happened, but I am not grabbing the table to move it anymore.

Being too cheap to buy a complete set up for the dial indicator, I decided to try my hand at making one of my own. Using some scrap, a left over bolt and the SS miter extension bolts, I made this. These pictures are before I did some sanding, but you get the idea.

The bottom is angled at 15 degrees, mostly because I had that bevel on there from another project, but I wanted only the miter slot to be in contact with the table. The dial is connected to a bolt that is counter sunk and epoxied into the bottom. That piece is screwed into the face which mounts on the miter gauge. I found that I needed to make a small wedge to place under the dial to keep it steady. ( off center drilling ) I used it to set the table and it appears to have worked well. I did make one test cut, but ran out of time to really check carefully.

I plan to do the tests discussed here and if successful, I will build a block like Dusty uses. Lots of learning and it was fun! TApping that table around and watching that dial is ( for me at least) counter intuitive. I see why you use the block!!]
I have been pleased with the results I get while using my "Square Block" to align the Mark V table. I believe that if you adopt this method, you too will be a satisfied user. However, be keenly aware, this method only works if your miter gauge is at 0° with the same level of accuracy as your final expected results. I use an Incra V120 miter gauge and I clamp the block to the face of the miter gauge while doing this alignment.