Mark VII motor starting switch (not inside the motor)

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:54 am

That's not how I read JPG's instructions.

[quote]
wh to power neutral
blk to power hot

red to yellow
redwhite to whiteblk

reverse red/redwhite to reverse direction.
[quote]

This is what I would have ended with to reverse direction. But then I am not knowledgeable about this motor. Only what I have read here and I must admit I have not studied the diagrams.

wh to power neutral
blk to power hot

redwhite to yellow
red to whiteblk

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:52 am

ryansm7 wrote:1/2 cool...

Forward direction works very smooth.

Reverse direction does not rotate, hums loud, and gives off unsavory toasty smell after only being plugged in for 1/2 second.

Just to confirm reverse direction bench test wiring:

wh to power neutral (white)
blk to power hot (black)

red/redwhite
yellow/whiteblk

See Dusty's post!!!!!!!!!!:)

ryansm7 · Post by **ryansm7** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:00 pm

Hey... guess what!

it works..... (duh)

I asked my daughter to look at JPG's post and see what she thought.

She said, [INDENT]"dad are you color blind and dyslexic?

I'm glad there are people out there who can pitch in and work together as a team.

And like some teams in your life… there may not have been an I in TEAM, but there is a yoU in STUPID."[/INDENT]

So with that being said, I'll now take great care in dissecting the "black box"

The chainsaw is out

maybe a coping saw...

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:24 am

From #12:

I(moi) would be taking the relay apart(carefully so as to NOT alter its operating and examine the contact for possible 'fixing'.

'Carefully' does not include a chain saw nor a coping saw!!!!!:rolleyes:

Glad motor #2 works!!!!

Howcum ya had two????

ryansm7 · Post by **ryansm7** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:49 pm

The second motor was a backup in case something happened to the original. It was a mothballed motor I got a while back with the intention of restoring it. This was as good as any time...

BTW... no chainsaw, coping saw....

Well it's open now; "how?” you ask.

Simple, I took the mounting bracket off with style and grace to reveal 2 screws holding the thing together. It fell apart without a hitch.
The innards’ consist of a normally closed switch (contacts, spring and lever) and a solenoid. The coil of the solenoid has a dc resistance of 3.25 ohms. The contacts on the switch are charred a bit, but can be cleaned. The spring is weak but functional. There was sawdust inside the “black box” which cleaned out with no problem.

[ATTACH]11377[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]11378[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]11375[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]11376[/ATTACH]

I made some rough current measurements. The power-on current surge through the coil exceeds 5.5 AC Amps; steady state current is between 200 AC mA +- 80 mA. (used a clamp meter with not very good accuracy).

I made some rough calculations regarding the coil inductance ~ 20mH.

Still need to figure out how to translate these figures into pick-up, constant coil voltage, etc...

I'm trying to get a hold of an oscilloscope to measure a max rise time current through the coil. I'm guessing there is either an embedded resistor in the coil winding, or the coil wire material is not copper; maybe aluminum.

If you have any ideas on a suitable substitute, please chime in.

Thanks again

.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:34 pm

I would be inclined to burnish the contacts(clean oxide off) , put it back together and forget about an 'equivalent'. The presence of sawdust is a likely suspect! After several on/off cycles, I predict it will be reliable. Those contacts look almost brand new(albeit oxidized).

BTW which terminals is the coil connected to(1,5)or(2,5)?

I do not understand the resistor/copper/aluminum sentence.

ryansm7 · Post by **ryansm7** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:24 am

The coil is across pins 2 to 5 (3.25 ohms)
The switch is across pins 1 to 2 (zero ohms)

I'll take your advice, for now cleaning it up and putting it back together is best.

I can look for an 'equivalent' in my spare time.... if and when I get some.

I'll let you know if the intermittent start-up problems go away after getting it all back together.

Again, thanks for your help!

ryansm7 · Post by **ryansm7** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:36 pm

Ok.... spare time found last weekend.

The intermittent start-up problems did not go away.

Looked online for a while and found this adjustable potential relay.
It's solid state and is advertized to have a pick-up voltage range between 110 - 270VAC.

I didn't get the chance to wire up the new part until now.

Since this guy is adjustable - it was worth a try.

[INDENT][INDENT][ATTACH]11554[/ATTACH][/INDENT][/INDENT]

Hooked it up, powered up the Mark VII motor, and shazam ! I'm back in business

Actually I did play around with the potentiometer to see what effect it has.

The higher settings still work, but the motor doesn’t want to fire up so fast.

The lowest setting seems to work best since the motor starts very quick.

.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:01 pm

ryansm7 wrote:Ok.... spare time found last weekend.

The intermittent start-up problems did not go away.

Looked online for a while and found this adjustable potential relay.
It's solid state and is advertized to have a pick-up voltage range between 110 - 270VAC.

I didn't get the chance to wire up the new part until now.

Since this guy is adjustable - it was worth a try.
[INDENT][INDENT][ATTACH]11554[/ATTACH][/INDENT][/INDENT] Hooked it up, powered up the Mark VII motor, and shazam ! I'm back in business

Actually I did play around with the potentiometer to see what effect it has.

The higher settings still work, but the motor doesn’t want to fire up so fast.

The lowest setting seems to work best since the motor starts very quick.

.

Grrrrreat!!! $????

ryansm7 · Post by **ryansm7** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:40 pm

JPG40504 wrote:Grrrrreat!!! $????

Supco APR5 Adjustable Potential Relay

http://www.amazon.com/Supco-APR5-Adjust ... 811&sr=8-1

$25 bucks plus shipping
.