1962 Goldie Disassembly

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ddvann79
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Motor Burning

Post by ddvann79 »

I performed the high speed adjustment. After that the speed changer felt tight and the motor hummed and smelled burned once turned on. This may have nothing to do with the high speed adjustment. The insulation around the windings was somewhat burned before reassembly. The circuit the SS is running on is a 20 amp breaker but other appliances and fixtures are on the circuit.

Even after removing the drive belt, the motor hummed and failed to come up to speed within 2 seconds and I couldn't bear to hear it hum longer than that.

I know the SS needs a dedicated circuit but there has to be more to it than that. I brought the motor inside and powered it under no load on a different circuit and it started and ran well but I got a wisp of smoke and a strong burned electrical smell. After taking it apart, there were a few burned spots in wire insulation where it contacted the copper windings that were not previously there. I didn't see any places where the windings were melted through but the foil/cardboard sleeves are definitely melted on about 30%-40% of the windings where they leave the stators on each end.

[ATTACH]11669[/ATTACH]

I haven't removed the capacitor from the motor to ohm it out since I don't have a soldering gun to solder it back into place.

Here's a videoon the problem.

I'm not sure where to go from here.
Based on some of Bill Mayo's posts, the A.O. Smith motor is likely/maybe salvageable but maybe just not by me.:confused:
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Bured Windings.JPG
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Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

You MAY have a shorted capacitor or a stuck on start switch.:(:(:(
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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JPG
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Post by JPG »

JPG40504 wrote:Remember this?

[ATTACH]11207[/ATTACH]

EDIT: I left this pix out originally.
After ddvann79 soak
[ATTACH]11210[/ATTACH]


After a day in evaporust
[ATTACH]11208[/ATTACH]

After brief wire brushing
[ATTACH]11209[/ATTACH]

Does not want to be 'disassembled', so it is drowning in K1 for a day.

Tune in tomorrow.]here[/URL].

Current status! Last post to this thread on this 'object'. http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showpost.htm?p=83401&postcount=11
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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billmayo
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Burnt Shopsmith Motor

Post by billmayo »

ddvann79 wrote:I performed the high speed adjustment. After that the speed changer felt tight and the motor hummed and smelled burned once turned on. This may have nothing to do with the high speed adjustment. The insulation around the windings was somewhat burned before reassembly. The circuit the SS is running on is a 20 amp breaker but other appliances and fixtures are on the circuit.

Even after removing the drive belt, the motor hummed and failed to come up to speed within 2 seconds and I couldn't bear to hear it hum longer than that.

I know the SS needs a dedicated circuit but there has to be more to it than that. I brought the motor inside and powered it under no load on a different circuit and it started and ran well but I got a wisp of smoke and a strong burned electrical smell. After taking it apart, there were a few burned spots in wire insulation where it contacted the copper windings that were not previously there. I didn't see any places where the windings were melted through but the foil/cardboard sleeves are definitely melted on about 30%-40% of the windings where they leave the stators on each end.

[ATTACH]11669[/ATTACH]

I haven't removed the capacitor from the motor to ohm it out since I don't have a soldering gun to solder it back into place.

Here's a videoon the problem.

I'm not sure where to go from here.
Based on some of Bill Mayo's posts, the A.O. Smith motor is likely/maybe salvageable but maybe just not by me.:confused:
Sorry, I believe your motor is toast now. You need an ohm meter to make sure the motor coil windings are not shorted to the motor casing. The run winding coil wires is be around 1-3 ohms (blue/black & white power leads) and the start winding (red wire from capacitor & white power lead) coil wire is around 2-5 ohms and no reading (open) from the power leads to the motor case.

I find I can get a few of the burnt coil winding motors to operate again (pressure wash the coil windings & inside the motor casing, reinsulate the coil windings) but the coil wires are normally still shorted to the casing. I am only successful about 15% of the time doing this to the burnt coil windings. Touching the casing when the motor is operating and when this short has occured can be a hair raising experience. I know from experience.

I am always interested in obtaining the end plates with centrifugal switch or current relay and the capacitor from any burnt or non-operational motor. I do not need the motor housing or rotor at this time. Contact me if interested in obtaining a rebuilt motor. FWD/REV option can be included.
Bill Mayo bill.mayo@verizon.net
Shopsmith owner since 73. Sell, repair and rebuild Shopsmith, Total Shop & Wood Master headstocks, SPTs, attachments, accessories and parts. US Navy 1955-1975 (FTCS/E-8)
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nuhobby
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Post by nuhobby »

Sorry about the toasted motor! I hope you can find a good deal.

Your machine sounded very fine prior to the motor failure. Where you commented (on the video) about the possibility of loose/noisy bearings, I don't think that's necessarily so. The noise that I heard on your video was pretty much the same "sheaves clatter" noise that all Mark V's have to some degree. It will quiet down a little bit with the cover on, and the belts broken-in. It's probably also influenced slightly by the oil-viscosity that you use on the floating-sheave and control-sheave.
Chris
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ddvann79
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Post by ddvann79 »

nuhobby wrote:Sorry about the toasted motor! I hope you can find a good deal.

Your machine sounded very fine prior to the motor failure. Where you commented (on the video) about the possibility of loose/noisy bearings, I don't think that's necessarily so. The noise that I heard on your video was pretty much the same "sheaves clatter" noise that all Mark V's have to some degree. It will quiet down a little bit with the cover on, and the belts broken-in. It's probably also influenced slightly by the oil-viscosity that you use on the floating-sheave and control-sheave.
Ahhh. Good to know. Dad watched the video and commented that he thought it was loud but also noted the cover was off. I still haven't found an Ace around here with Zoom Spout but I'm content with 3-in-1 for now. I'd like to give Bostik bearing lube a try since it's supposed to prevent gumming up.

I thought with a burned motor this project was going to be put on hold for a while for lack of funding but the wife OKed the expense. She's good with it as long as I'm building stuff for her! Bill Mayo to the rescue. :)

Now if I could only get out of my iced-over street.
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
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ddvann79
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Post by ddvann79 »

While the motor is off at Dr. Bill's getting a new heart and reverse switch, I assembled the base. Got a lot going on at work these days so not much time for the shop. I've really got to find a place for some of my roadside scavenges.

[ATTACH]11844[/ATTACH]
Not the original base mounting bolts. They are wide pan heads but I think they look pretty good. Besides, I only had five of the original ones and four of the square nuts.

[ATTACH]11845[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]11846[/ATTACH]
The tube lock bars were excessively corroded and stained. I painted them metallic chrome.
Attachments
IMG02346-20110207-1734.jpg
IMG02346-20110207-1734.jpg (365.43 KiB) Viewed 3662 times
IMG02347-20110207-1735.jpg
IMG02347-20110207-1735.jpg (341.04 KiB) Viewed 3660 times
IMG02340-20110207-1715.jpg
IMG02340-20110207-1715.jpg (122 KiB) Viewed 3662 times
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
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dusty
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Post by dusty »

This is the time to set her on her feet, loosen the set screws that secure the tubes and make everything level. If you build her up on a perfectly level foundation (the bench tubes and legs), she'll align much easier.

She is going to be a beaut.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
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ddvann79
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Leveling on Uneven Floor

Post by ddvann79 »

dusty wrote:This is the time to set her on her feet, loosen the set screws that secure the tubes and make everything level. If you build her up on a perfectly level foundation (the bench tubes and legs), she'll align much easier.

She is going to be a beaut.
Leveling the base is definitely a priority but I'm not quite sure how the system will stay that way. The shop floor is fairly uneven in places. Other than making sure the feet rest in the same position every time I use it, I'm not sure what else to do about that.
Dalton
Fort Worth, Texas
1962 MK 5 #373733 Goldie
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dusty
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Post by dusty »

ddvann79 wrote:Leveling the base is definitely a priority but I'm not quite sure how the system will stay that way. The shop floor is fairly uneven in places. Other than making sure the feet rest in the same position every time I use it, I'm not sure what else to do about that.
My garage floor slopes but it is fairly level from side to side. I have two blocks that I put under the legs on the infeed side (because of the way I have the Mark V oriented).

If I remove one of those leveling blocks, the Mark V sits with one leg (wheel) suspended in the air. I interpret this as an indication that once leveled it will not twist easily. Because of this, I believe you can roll a Mark V around on an uneven floor with no adverse effect.

Once you have it in a location where you want to use it, I would check for stability and somehow secure it if it rocks but I feel that is all you have to do.

I am prepared to say that the Mark V will definitely remain in alignment even though you are moving it around on an uneven floor BUT it must start its roller coaster ride with the tubes properly leveled and secured.

Adding the Carriage and Headstock into the equation just makes it that much more stable when the locks are all secured.

This is a beautiful machine and it endures the hardships that we put it through if we just treat it and use it with care. It was designed to do just what we are discussing.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
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