Does Anyone Do Woodworking

[mrhart]

The woodworking hobby as a whole belongs to the older generation who grew up in a time when things were made and repaired at home by the people who live there.

I always wonder where the people who keep the big box hardware/home improvment stores in business live. I always see people buying all sorts of things when I myself visit these stores, but I never see anyone doing any projects, not in my neighborhood anyway.

Things change with time. I remember as a teenager being able to work on my cars in the driveway using simple, cheap, uncomplicated tools, but now cars are built so complicated, you need thousands of dollars worth of specialized tools to work on them.

The same with woodworking. Those of us who enjoy this type of work, now called a pastime because a hobby should not be work, are of the older generation. At only 49 yrs. old myself, I find myself in the younger group of woodworkers. I'm the youngest in my fine woodworkers club, and the second youngest in my woodturning club, and the youngest in my model train club. The cost of these hobbies is high, and keeps on getting higher. That is a major stopping block for most young people starting families right now.

What is wrong with me. I find myself almost alone in my age group who enjoys these types of hobbies. Everyone else I know at my age are more interested in talking about finances, politics, who makes the best beer, etc. I'm almost an outcast with my age group.

I feel that it is our own fault that the younger generation (and even those who are my age) has lost interest in these type of subjects. How many of us reinforced the joys of working with our hands to our children? How many of us asked our children for help when we worked out in the shop? Not many I'm sure. I'm guilty of it myself. We only have to look at ourselves for this problem, not the younger people themselves.

There was a time when fathers and mothers passed down these traits/skills to their children, but starting in the 60's and 70's this type of teaching slowed to a crawl and the parents found themselves enjoying the hobbies they love on their own, and letting their children go on to explore their lives on their own also. I know this because I grew up in the 60's and 70's. During this time period, things changed over from "good things shall come to those who wait" to more of a need for instant gratification. The industries/factories became more reliant on automation. I remember reading about the protests held at factories because people were loosing their jobs due to automation. Now it is so commonplace no one complains about it at all anymore. Automation was industries answer to instant gratification.

It's just change. Life changes as we grow older, new interests are created that didn't exsist when we were growing up. I'm sure that if Ipods, home computers, etc. were around when we were growing up, we would have been interested more in those items instead of our father's table saw.

Want the younger generation to take an interest in what we enjoy, then we have to take an interest in what they enjoy also. We need to show them what can be done with your own hands. Take them out to your shop and show them around. I have done this with my children and now the neighborhood children. But I also have an interest in what they enjoy. They showed me all about computers, MP3 players, DVD's, etc. Now I enjoy all those things too.

My children have moved on with there own lives, but I've been blessed with being able to show my grandchildren their "Poppy's" woodshop, and that's where they want to spend all their time when they come for a visit. So maybe, just maybe, not all is lost. Spend some time showing the younger ones, pass along all you can, stir a spark in them. Don't hide in the workshop by yourself, and don't let the enjoyment of your hobbies fade away when you do.

P.S. There is nothing wrong with cristicism. How you handle it and what you do with it is what's important. Don't take what is written on this forum too personally, or it will drive you nuts. Believe me, have you read what some have written about me. I have never met them, don't even know what they look like. If I took it personally, I would have left this forum years ago.

I like your take on this, kids have no exposure, they might love it if they are exposed to it.
Last summer I decided to paint my own house on the exterior. I thought about it for 2-3 years. Wife and kids thought I was crazy. One day I bought some paint and those new fangled sponge type brushes (no brush marks) and dug in. No compressor, 2 story with awkward places. My 17 year old son was bewildered I would do this without a sprayer. Just bewildered. I said "Son, how do you think all the homes in the world were painted before spay guns?" He had never thought of it that way. Its not in their generation so it doesn't occur to them. I worked on it til almost thanksgiving nights and some weekends. I had him follow me and help often. Now he can appreciate doing things by hand and the satisfaction of seeing the difference every time he pulls up to the house. One day he said he won't be afraid to jump in and do the same to his home when he's older.
Alot of work but a good lesson.

[TH workshop]

I think part of the challenge is to make whatever you are trying to teach a teenager relevant to them.

Teenagers are necessarily living in a different reality. I call this the age of required selfishness. They have to be the way they are in order to assert themselves, get out of the house, and become productive adults. I find that the problem is not the teenager but the parent(s) of the teenager. Too many times I see a parent getting walked all over by their children because the parent wants to be friend or a buddy to their kid and their kid's friends. This never works. The teen is living in the age of required selfishness so they just take and take. Unfortunately the teen eventually resents mom and dad for not providing what they actually need, boundaries, guidelines, respect, and love. A good parent draws the boundaries and enforces them with compassionate efficiency. The boundaries will be pushed and that is a good thing. As the teen learns and earns trust with their parents the boundaries are expanded. The other problem parent is the overly busy parent that has no time for their kids. The worst thing I see happen with teens is the parent throwing their kid a wad of cash and saying see you later! No guidance, no rules, no boundaries, no involvement whatsoever, trouble always ensues and the teenager while reveling in the independence initially eventually begins to resent their parents because they obviously don't care about them enough to set the boundaries and teach them what life is about.

I have worked with youth and teens for most of my adult life in different organizations and events. Almost every happy teen I have met has strict (But not overly strict) parents that set guidelines and boundaries and enforce them compassionate efficiency. I have seen these kids say "I hate my parents, they're so mean" when they don't get their way, and the kid next to them says "at least they care!" This usually makes the complainer stop and think. I have seen teens say to other teens with strict or involved parents "Your parents are so cool! They show up and help out! I wish my mom or dad would do that."

Make the task relevant to the teen and they will engage. Establish the boundaries and enforce them. I have three children that all have a working understanding of the tools in my shop. Recently my older kids (27 and 25) have both expressed interest in wood working they didn't when they were younger but they do now. My 15 YO son wants nothing to do with my woodworking and has even told me so. I just have to find a way to make it relevant to him and be patient. In the meantime, if I need a helper in the shop, he gets called to assist and I take the time to try and teach him a few things while I'm at it. He'll come around eventually. I see it already in the things he says and his general behavior around his friends. Patience is really required when working with teens.

Just my fifty cents on the subject.

Exacly!!!!

[sawdust]

Hi Farmer,

Wish I can find one of those cheap RAS's you are talking about. It's hard to find even a used one that's over 20 yrs. old for $100.00 or less where I live, if you can find a used one for sale at all.

Woodburner check the Santa Maria or Slo craigslist. Seems like they are on
there alot. They are not super cheap. Might be a reason to come to the coast, anyway.

[swampgator]

Thank you folks for reviving this thread. A couple of weeks ago, the pastors wife came and asked how young could boys start working with wood. I said just as soon as they pick up a board and imagine it is something else. My grandson is 4 and while he does not like the noise, he likes to paint and some other trivial stuff. He has some interest, but he is only 4. The pastor's son is 10 and he is interested. Will be having him a couple hours on weekends just to get him started. Never had shop myself, but have read, watched many videos, done some projects and have some common sense to teach this child. Looking forward to capture his interest of creating something useful for himself and others. He'll be treated as my own son and he will learn safety first, hand tools next followed by power tools if he continues. I'm grateful that someone asked me to show their child. Who knows the results of the ripples?

[damagi]

I am a young guy (still south of 30 for a couple more months), but I know that many of my interests are more "mature" than many of the people that I know that are my age. One thing I have come to realize in getting into this hobby is that there are a number of factors which fight against it from a young person's traditional perspective:

• Time is a premium. Good quality work takes time...including the practice time to learn the skills before doing the actual project.
• Space is a premium when you are young. This comes into play both in terms of workspaces, but also in terms of transporting and storing materials (ie: I have to borrow a truck when I want to get materials since my mini cooper just can't fit much). Beyond that, having the space to keep the scraps is not as easy when space is tight.
• Money is at a premium. If you are older and established, then you are more likely to have disposable income. Granted, many young people spend fistfulls of cash on electronics and whatnot, but lets face it - woodworking is an expensive hobby. Beyond the cost of tools, the materials can be really pricey.
• Perceived quality is skewed. While IKEA stuff is not really good quality, the cost of putting something together that looks good and is better than what you could get is high - both in terms of time and money. In a situation where people's living situations and preferences are subject to change, its hard to justify the time/effort/expense of doing fine work if you are going to move 10 times before you settle down. In that time you could easily go from big to small to big places. Further, while I know IKEA stuff will fall apart, its hard to justify paying 10-100 times as much after tools and materials for something that looks similar to most people.
• Knowledge is tough to come by. This may seem odd, but its harder than ever to find true knowledge about woodworking. Sure, there are clubs and such. I have had great luck there so far, but its still tough. I have met more than one person who was concerned about doing lessons anywhere other than woodcraft because of liability concerns. As much as you can read online, it takes real experience - not cheap, and not always convenient.

I got into woodworking as an active choice. I am still "getting into it", and fully accept that I have at this point gotten more into tools (specifically shopsmiths) than I have gotten into woodworking. I come from a post-shop-class era (my brother took it, but it was cancelled by the time I got to middle school), and I wasn't lucky enough to be able to get into woodworking and such before my grandpa lost his vision to macular degeneration. It will definitely take time to get good, but I know it will be worth it in the end. Finding time...now thats the real challenge.

[wannabewoodworker]

Damagi,
You hit the nail on the head. TIME! and MONEY! This is what I am finding out now that I am really getting into it. My machines are all rebuilt and ready to make sawdust but I am finding that making time to do what I want to do is really difficult. I work 5 days a week and that leaves me with several hours at night to work out in the garage. I usually work until about 9:00 pm. then knock off and go back inside to eat and relax with the wifey. Then on the weekends there always seems to be things that need doing and this cuts into my wood time.

I took shop class when I was in high school but that knowledge really has left me behind and I am finding that I really need some refresher on how to do the basics properly. I made an expanding table from plans in Shopnotes and it was really a difficult project for me as I really didn't know everything I needed to make this table properly and efficiently. This should have been a relatively easy thing to make as it isn't by any means a fine woodworking project but not having the proper basic knowledge it took me far too long to make and I wasted a lot of time and materials. I did finally get it made but it is not anywhere near as nice as I wanted it to finally be. It is functional which is good but I am somewhat of a perfectionist and I would not show this thing off to anyone hence I have not posted any pictures of it. I will soldier on and I will learn as i go and I will master the things that are giving me fits but it is a very time consuming process.

I do have a good friend who is older and is a fantastic woodworker. Teddy has offered to show me what I need to do plus he has offered to share his shop with me. He has a Powermatic Cabinet Saw, Powermatic Jointer, Delta Bandsaw, Mortiser, etc. so he has everything I need to make really nice stuff but more importantly he has the knowledge I need to become a better woodworker. So I will be getting together with him to learn some of things I don't know.

The last thing is money. The materials to make the things I would like to make is crazy expensive. I never realized how expensive the raw materials are for woodworking projects. I am am always on the lookout for materials and will acquire stuff to make things with time. This was a very interesting thread indeed and provoked some deep thought on the subject and i enjoyed reading it.

[BigSky]

It is interesting to note how many new members have joined this forum even in the short time since this thread was started. It is obvious that the forum offers something that is needed it is just not concentrated on doing woodworking.

mbcabinetmaker - you should write a book.

[robinson46176]

Cheap woodworking... It can be done...
I already talked tools way early in this thread. Much of it is mindset. One way to keep it cheap is to substitute labor and time for speed. Unless you are doing production work this isn't a race... It is a hobby. So what if it takes 6 weeks to make a coffee table... Slow down and enjoy the process instead of spending all of your time lunging into the harness attempting to get instant gratification. If you want instant just go to the store and buy furniture.
Another way to do it cheap is to choose smaller projects. The pen turning guys will tell you that they get as much enjoyment out of a project using a piece of wood about 7" X ¾" X ¾" as they would get from making a bed...
If you have a list of must build stuff that is fine but if you just want to do woodworking consider a string of deluxe birdhouses. One of Diana's brothers has made some nice big stuff but still enjoys making and installing birdhouses around his property. I have an old copy of Fine Woodworking around here that showed making really nice birdhouses by gluing a hollow shape and turning the outside on the lathe. Really nice.
Another one of Diana's brothers made a really nice hall table from material cut from an old beam salvaged from the old barn-like garage when the house and garage where they grew up was demolished.
A small cheap chainsaw can be used to cut out usable wood from things like that beam (he hired it cut by a sawmill because he has money but a chainsaw would have done it fine).
Keep in mind (more of that mind-set thing) that in spite of what many have come to think, that you DO NOT always have to use exactly the right tool for each job each time. Learn to improvise... If you are cutting a board from a tree that grew on a south facing slope it does not mean that you can't use the same saw to cut a board sawed from a tree that grew on a north facing slope. Don't get so bogged down in the details that you start telling yourself that this is too far over my head. Just take time to break the process down into small steps and think each step through.
There is a two word description in home woodworking that serves better than saying "mistake". Instead call it "design change"...
What ever you do don't let people tell you that you can't do woodworking because you don't have the right tools or the right wood...
BTW, I like working in yellow poplar. They just did a show using it on one of the TV wood shows. It works nice (unlike some of the cheap woods) and is one of the lowest price woods available. It can finish to look much like cherry or walnut.

[wa2crk]

Hi Gang;
Here I am sitting in my kitchen waiting for the thunderstorms to roll through. (they have been rolling since 3 AM) and recalling a conversation I had with my grandson a while back. I had been trying to get him interested in woodworking and other hand crafts rather than video games. We were in thhe car and listening to a station that plays 50's rock n roll and the song was "At the Hop" I hope some of you will remember it.
He said " Hey Grampa What's a hop?
I said "A hop is a party where they play records and dance. And when we danced it looked like we were hopping up and down.
He said "Oh"
After several seconds of silence he said "Grampa, what's a record?"
I knew that I had failed to connect.
Bill V

[robinson46176]

[quote="wa2crk"]Hi Gang]



I enjoy looking at stores, on-line and in catalogs for the latest tools and techniques. New stuff is coming daily...
It hard to think that in the not so distant human past (in the big picture) on this planet that it was not uncommon for tools and methods to go 100 years or more without any major changes...
You will be lucky if they remember VHS.


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