Motor Problems

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:43 pm

You need to direct your attention to the blackened damaged area. Carefully remove all soot. Do not use anything that might dissolve the varnish insulation.

That should allow you to see if any wires are shorting to each other. Extreme caution is required to prevent further damage. I expect the enamel insulation to be severely damaged, and all adjacent wires must be examined diligently to make sure there is no copper to copper contact. That may not be possible if the damage is too severe/too many places. Once you have decided all shorts are 'gone', re insulate the winding in that area(formvar, or I believe Bill Mayo uses hi-temp motor paint)

If yer lucky(?), the bolt only damaged the wire(s) in a small area, and the black soot is not indicitive of the extent.

I am guessing there is at least one short in that area(winding to winding).

Be careful when reapplying power. Since the damaged area is not visible with the end cap replaced, you may consider a VERY BRIEF application of power with it disassembled(end caps off, armature removed). If the windings are still shorted, that should become obvious immediately. That area will heat up. If no heat buildup is noticeable visually(smoke test), then after disconnecting power feel the area and compare its temperature to the 'normal' area.

You correctly identified the start switch points(they are closed(made) in your pix).

The remainder of the windings do not appear to be burned.

Look the armature over carefully to see if it sustained any displaced screw damage.

This is not recommended for timid folks, but MAY lead to recovering its useful life.

A motor shop will not fix this!(too labor intensive and does not have a high success rate).

Key point is, how badly(how many 'places') is the winding shorted.

aloibl · Post by **aloibl** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:51 pm

If the motor just needed replacement bearings I would say go for it but there is nothing that you can do with damaged windings. They would have to be replaced but that would probably cost you as much as getting another motor. Also if you have a motor shop replace your windings you can never know if they rebuilt it to the original specifications. There are probably other people that can respond to you about the different ways that you can get a replacement motor but in my "opinion" it is not worth getting a small motor rewound at a motor shop.

shwacknyon · Post by **shwacknyon** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:58 pm

I see a motor with the model number C48L2A1. My motor is 5KC37PN186A. does anyone know if these two motors will fit in the same foot print (mounting bolts)? All of the specs are otherwise the same.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:05 pm

aloibl wrote:If the motor just needed replacement bearings I would say go for it but there is nothing that you can do with damaged windings. They would have to be replaced but that would probably cost you as much as getting another motor. Also if you have a motor shop replace your windings you can never know if they rebuilt it to the original specifications. There are probably other people that can respond to you about the different ways that you can get a replacement motor but in my "opinion" it is not worth getting a small motor rewound at a motor shop.

Agreed! I was trying to provide a possible(albiet iffy) thing to try. If the damage(shorted winding) is minimal he MIGHT be able to salvage it.

It is at least worth 'looking at'.

You may not want to 'see' this, but tis an excellent source! Actually the only one for a new one with a guarantee!
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/itemfind.htm?item=513964&Submit=Find+Item

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:09 pm

shwacknyon wrote:I see a motor with the model number C48L2A1. My motor is 5KC37PN186A. does anyone know if these two motors will fit in the same foot print (mounting bolts)? All of the specs are otherwise the same.

Where are you seeing that? If it ain't Shopsmith issue, it won't 'fit'(the mounting feet are unique). Keep in mind the Shopsmith motor has a blower housing for an end cap!

shwacknyon · Post by **shwacknyon** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:29 pm

I just did a 1 1/8 hp motor search and found it. They say it is for a mark v, and from the pics it looks like it. The big difference that I see is the cap opposite the shaft end of the motor looks like it sticks out further.

As far as rebuilding goes, I have cleaned up the area and see some minor spots that I could add some insulation to. The biggie is a wire that has been completely separated and is missing a piece about an inch long. For the purpose of saving myself some money I want to try adding that piece back in. I guess I would just sand away the insulation on both sides in the motor and twist in the new piece? It seems like a long stretch but is it possible? Is there a better way to add the wire like soldering (which I have never done before but I consider myself handy enough to figure it out)?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:53 pm

shwacknyon wrote:I just did a 1 1/8 hp motor search and found it. They say it is for a mark v, and from the pics it looks like it. The big difference that I see is the cap opposite the shaft end of the motor looks like it sticks out further.

As far as rebuilding goes, I have cleaned up the area and see some minor spots that I could add some insulation to. The biggie is a wire that has been completely separated and is missing a piece about an inch long. For the purpose of saving myself some money I want to try adding that piece back in. I guess I would just sand away the insulation on both sides in the motor and twist in the new piece? It seems like a long stretch but is it possible? Is there a better way to add the wire like soldering (which I have never done before but I consider myself handy enough to figure it out)?

At this point a good close up pix would help to determine if an actual short is still there.

IF it is as you say(parts need reinsulating, and a piece has burned out)then you may have a good shot at this. Since the winding is actually 'open' then much of what you have previously described makes sense(now).

It is possible that all that black stuff came from the burnt out wire, and the bare copper is due to the screw damaging it after the power was off.

Re twisting: yes but]Shopsmith [/B]Motor will fit/work.

shwacknyon · Post by **shwacknyon** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:06 pm

I looked on ebay. I am going to give fixing it a shot. Here is a pic.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:26 pm

shwacknyon wrote:I looked on ebay. I am going to give fixing it a shot. Here is a pic.

Looks doable from that angle! Any way a pix from 'above' looking down on that area?

[ATTACH]12588[/ATTACH]

shwacknyon · Post by **shwacknyon** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:42 pm

The strands on the lower end of the pic are the cords (I don't know what the are made of) that are holding the windings together. I have attached another pic that shows this a little better.

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