jimsjinx
I am always so amazed at the beautiful and neat shops I see on here. Some of you guys have shops that you could eat off the floor! How the heck do you do it? I admit, I used to say negative stuff like,"Yeah, it's cause they don't do anything in it!" But now, I am admitting, it's just envey. I know you guys and gals are true craftsmen/women, and you have a system for your shops. I just never could get a handle on it like you guys. I clean and vacume, and try to organize, but the first job that hits the shop, causes a malay of messes, that takes me days to clean up. Am I trying to work too fast? Should I charge more, so I can slow down and put things back every couple of hours/minutes? I have supported my family doing woodworking and restorations, I know what I'm doing there, but I'm getting older, and slower, and I need your advise to be able to keep going. I get a ton of satisfaction from resto work, but it is such a dirty endeavor. Stripping, repair/rebuilding, sanding/assembly, and finishing. Each makes it's own mess. Now I'm not horrible, just can't get that polished look to the shop. It is SOO impressive to customers, as well. Hope you all don't think I'm a pig or something! This is hard for me to admit, but I trust in you all!!! Thank you, jimsjinx
JPG
jimsjinx wroteI am always so amazed at the beautiful and neat shops I see on here. Some of you guys have shops that you could eat off the floor! How the heck do you do it? I admit, I used to say negative stuff like,"Yeah, it's cause they don't do anything in it!" But now, I am admitting, it's just envey. I know you guys and gals are true craftsmen/women, and you have a system for your shops. I just never could get a handle on it like you guys. I clean and vacume, and try to organize, but the first job that hits the shop, causes a malay of messes, that takes me days to clean up. Am I trying to work too fast? Should I charge more, so I can slow down and put things back every couple of hours/minutes? I have supported my family doing woodworking and restorations, I know what I'm doing there, but I'm getting older, and slower, and I need your advise to be able to keep going. I get a ton of satisfaction from resto work, but it is such a dirty endeavor. Stripping, repair/rebuilding, sanding/assembly, and finishing. Each makes it's own mess. Now I'm not horrible, just can't get that polished look to the shop. It is SOO impressive to customers, as well. Hope you all don't think I'm a pig or something! This is hard for me to admit, but I trust in you all!!! Thank you, jimsjinx
It is obvious to me that this was not tossed in my direction. I am the antithesis of a 'neatfreak'.
I really think it is a matter of 'habit'. Some would refer to it as 'self discipline'.
IMHO they are both true! They just do not 'exist' here!:eek:
If you get any helpful responses I will be 'observing as well'. Problem is it would take me a month to get to 'the starting point'!:D
robinson46176
No matter what I have worked at for income (except farming) over the years I was always a neat-freak. I'm the guy that often made others angry by insisting on "a place for everything and everything in its place"...
When I went home at night I turned that switch off... :eek: I am now retired and that switch is stuck, permanently off. :rolleyes:
BTW, my parents were horrible pack-rats and I was passed that gene. I guess that is why the farm shop was always a mess.
Still I believe that if you want something done properly and especially with some imagination don't hand it to the guy or gal with the clean desk. look for some clutter. :)
.
kalynzoo
Interesting timing on your post. I spent the last two days just cleaning, waxing, oiling and trying to re-find a home for everything. At the same time I was bemoaning the fact that I was not accomplishing a single project. I'm not a neat freak, my son-in-law is OC (obsessive compulsive) so I know what a neat freak is, but their happily married with two beautiful children, so I have no complaints. But I digress. In my shop, unlike my introduction to woodworking in Jr. High in the early 60's, every tool does not have a place. I used to have 3lb cans of mixed things, but the 94 Earthquake wiped all that stuff out, so I got to start new.
Now at the end of every setup I take time to vacuum. I dust the SS constantly. I never put a tool away dirty. It may not be "clean" but it is not dirty. But then, I work on small crafts, most of the projects can easily be carried from bench to bench.
My car has never seen the inside of the garage. I wish I would have sealed the concrete before we moved in....I'll never ever get to it now. In California I can work with the doors open year round, and blow or brush lots of stuff outside. And it probably takes me twice as long as it should to turn a pen, because I turn on the vacuum every 10 minutes to clear the work area.
We are what we are....enjoy.
rlkeeney
I think they just clean it up for the photo. ;)
8iowa
I'm often chided/kidded about my clean shop. While some would consider me a model of organization, truth is I have to work at it. Perhaps it is human nature to become "comfortable" with a poorly organized shop and this a great way to keep your shop in a constant mess.
The Shopsmith system itself encourages one to clean up the shop. For example, you have just completed sawing and now need to go to drill press. This is the perfect opportunity to take the broom or vac and clean up the dust and scraps.
Most of us have severely limited wall space, especially in garages. Avoid the temptation to "display" your tools on the wall. Those beautiful wall cabinets are for guys that have 1000 sq ft shops. Shelves are much more versitile and metal "Craftsman" type tool cabinets store the blades and smaller items much more efficiently.
A finishing room is a luxury very few of us have. An air cleaner on the ceiling makes it possible to avoid dust in the varnish. My DC3300, a turbo vac, and dust pan and broom do the rest.
spiderclimber
rlkeeney wroteI think they just clean it up for the photo. ]
That may be very true. I find when I work on a project, my shop explodes into a nightmare. At the end of the project, I usually don't feel like cleaning up because I just want to be done.
I end up cleaning the shop up a little at a time over the next week. But, I could still tell you where almost everything is at during the mass havoc in the shop, except my tape measure. That thing gets away from me more times than not and I don't know how.
Gene Howe
If "Cleanliness is next to Godliness", I'm surely going to Hell. :D :D
Every machine in the shop is DC capable. But, "I'm just going to make this one little cut. No need to hook up the DC."
Every tool has a place. But, "I'll probably need it again in a few minutes."
Wife has a sign in the kitchen. "An immaculate housekeeper is a dull woman." If that applies to my shop, I must be one exciting guy.
I notice that my dog only visits after I've cleaned the shop. Otherwise, he has nowhere to lie down.:o
jimsjinx
I see the killer cabinets, the epoxy floor paint, or even worse, a beautiful hardwood floor, with rubber mats at each machine. I see color coordinated slat walls, with hanging equipment, all shiney and ready for use. All the sharps hanging in rows on the wall, next to other sharp tools. That's what I see when I get envious. I have tried the "work triangle" approach, and it always becomes more like a "hexagon of hell"! I used to have one huge oak trunk I built to hold all my woodworking hand tools, but that ended when I started using electricity! Power tools started to earn thier keep by saving me time and money. So now the trunk holds all the adapters, and accessories, that would otherwise get lost. I have a 26'x32' garage with an 8' ceiling. I have a fair amount of workspace, but it's never enough, when I'm doing a job. I think I'm OCD! jimsjinx
ss50th
Francis,
Liked your clean desk comment. Before retiring I always had a small sign on my desk "A CLEAN DESK IS THE SIGN OF A SICK MIND"
Ed in Tampa
I fine a clean shop is a necessity to me. I'm forever dropping something on the floor or misplacing something. If the shop is a mess I will never find it.
Through the years I have learned a few secrets of a clean shop.
First no shelving, all shelving does is gives dust a place to land. I have found cabinets, roll around tool chests(Sears) to be the best way to store tools and supplies.
Second every tool has a place and every tool is in that place at the end of the day. This was learned after I have to repeatedly replace tools that got lost or thrown way. Now at the end of the day every tools is automatically accounted by a really quick scan of the cabinets and tool storage locations.
Third I'm to old to do calisthencis in the shop. I have found with a clean shop I'm not tripping over things and trying to do hand stands to keep from laying my head open. I have worked in dirty shops and I will never do that again. The pulled muscles from trying to catch myself and twisted ankles are not worth it to me.
Fourth my shop is also my garage I never figured out the economy of letting a $25,000 car sit in weather while I protect some tools and junk in garage.
My car goes into the garage every night unless I have a finishing project and the finish isn't dry or huge layout that is not worth the bother to pick up and put way. However I haven't left my cars out for longer than a week. Well that is not true I did a boat rebuild project that took about 6 weeks and every one knows a fishing boat trumps momma's car everytime. :D
Fifth I like to make people wonder about a clean shop. Some where the idea that you have to have a dirty shop to really be doing anything is in our heads. Yet I know productions shops that every night are cleaned and reset (tools put back where they belong so others can find them). And they turn out hundred times more projects that what most home hobbiest do.
Sixth I have pride I like to think I'm not a pig (this of course is hotly contested by wife after I whip up a hearty breakfast or the condition of the bathroom after I take a shower after an exhausting day in the shop or garden) :eek: Yes dear the seat is down!
ryanbp01
ss50th wroteFrancis,
Liked your clean desk comment. Before retiring I always had a small sign on my desk "A CLEAN DESK IS THE SIGN OF A SICK MIND"
A corollary is "If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, what is an empty desk a sign of?";)
While I do keep the shop relatively clean, what needs to be done is to rehang my hand tools in the shop so I can get to them easily. I would also help if I would get rid of the junk (electric appliance cords, reflectors, and the like) for more wall space. While I do have a separate shop room in the garage, it is too small to do any large scale cutting in.
BPR
ryanbp01
jimsjinx wroteI am always so amazed at the beautiful and neat shops I see on here. Some of you guys have shops that you could eat off the floor! How the heck do you do it? I admit, I used to say negative stuff like,"Yeah, it's cause they don't do anything in it!" But now, I am admitting, it's just envey. I know you guys and gals are true craftsmen/women, and you have a system for your shops. I just never could get a handle on it like you guys. I clean and vacume, and try to organize, but the first job that hits the shop, causes a malay of messes, that takes me days to clean up. Am I trying to work too fast? ...
Jim-
Welcome to the club!:D
BPR
JPG
ss50th wroteFrancis,
Liked your clean desk comment. Before retiring I always had a small sign on my desk "A CLEAN DESK IS THE SIGN OF A SICK MIND"
The desk sign I always 'related to' was:
IF A 'CLUTTERED' DESKTOP IS AN INDICATION OF A CLUTTERED MIND, - ONE CAN NOT HELP BUT PONDER WHAT IS INDICATED BY AN 'EMPTY' DESKTOP.
Management of my long term 'clean desk philosophy' employer did not particularly care for it however!;)
Dropped a 1/4" c-clip last night.:( Yep the sawdust gobbled it up!:eek:
While sucking up the sawdust looking fer it, I discovered the set screw I dropped last year!:rolleyes:
Seriously it is getting more and more time consuming trying to recall where I last used something so as to determine where to look for it. A long long time ago I did not have that problem. I always remembered immediately where I had left it. Tain't so any more! While I am not in any rush anymore, the lack of significant remaining years causes me to lament the wasting of what I do have left by constantly trying to remember and searching for stuff.
Old Dog - New Tricks - Sadly true!!! :>}}
kalynzoo
I used to have a sign on my desk, but I can't find the sign, and I don't remember what it said. :D
shipwright
robinson46176 wrote I'm the guy that often made others angry by insisting on "a place for everything and everything in its place"....
So
you're the guy!!!!
I clean up my shop between projects and when I can't walk around anymore, which ever comes first. I've always operated that way
at home and I always remember where everything was left but when I had my shipyard and there was more just me using things, everything had to be put away every night and a cleanup done.
Paul M
wh500special
Ed in Tampa wrote...and every one knows a fishing boat trumps momma's car everytime. :D...
That's quite possibly the best line I've ever read on a forum!
I do my best to clean as I go, but it seems like I'm always hurried at the end of a work period since I can't seem to discipline myself to quit screwing around at a reasonable time. Invariably, I skip sweeping up the sawdust since it's not as fun of a task as making the mess was. It's a time management thing for me.
I'm in the process of setting up a new shop in the basement of my new house. Prior to moving, I was out in the garage and a lingering mess wasn't as big of a deal since it didn't leak as easily into the living area. I know for family harmony I'm going to have to force myself to be more clean and tidy.
One of my other big problems is the inability to throw any scrap of wood away regardless of how small or odd shapen. It's even worse now since they're still building new houses in my neighborhood and I am making "dumpster diving" my newest hobby. In 5 month's I've salvaged about 100' of baseboard and casing as well as tons of oak, cherry, and other scraps from flooring, cabinets, and stairways. Absolutely amazing what gets pitched...by others.:D
Kudos to those who can control themselves!
Steve
JPG
shipwright wroteSo you're the guy!!!!
I clean up my shop between projects and when I can't walk around anymore, which ever comes first. I've always operated that way at home and I always remember where everything was left but when I had my shipyard and there was more just me using things, everything had to be put away every night and a cleanup done.
Paul M
Ah! But then you were 'getting paid' to do it!:D
fjimp
What a great read. I thought of claiming I only clean the shop when a picture is taken. Truth is I am a neat nick. Some twenty years ago I was working with a client on an insurance sale offering the potential to earn the biggest single commission of my career. My office was so disorganized I lost a key "single sheet of paper," I lost the sale and began digging out from under the clutter. I promised myself to never go back. Most of the time having a place for everything and only dealing with every piece of mail one time, work great. In the shop that is not so easy. Still the frustration of losing a key ingredient to any project sends me into a tizzy. If I were to take a picture of the shop today, there is sawdust on the floor in two different work areas. Projects from both areas are completed and in use. I am in the midst of cleaning and polishing all tools. The floor is to be cleaned just prior to starting two new cabinet projects. This of course is all hinging on my arm recovering and the rain stopping long enough to cure the river threatening to enter the shop. fjimp
dlbristol
I was raised by a mom who was very neat and a dad who, well, was not!:p
I took after dad, until I got to 9th grade Algebra and Mrs. Shank! I turned in some work, a test probably, and it was a mess. She politely, returned it with the statement, " When I can read this , I will grade it". I decided to challenge this and returned a equally messy retest. She wrote "F" and then wrote the same message about the next test. I was in trouble at that point, and when dad saw it my battle with Mrs. Shank was over. I got a lot neater! One thing I have learned, I think, is that it is important to know when clutter gets in the way of the task at hand. I once worked with a guy who surveyed for the USGS. He had the biggest mess in the truck and office you ever saw, but he could put his hands on what ever he needed at any time! I still don't know how he did it! I tend to clean up between projects, and I follow an ' evolutionary" system for putting things up. They seem to have a spot where they want to be and eventually I figure out where that is and leave them there. Another thing I have learned is not to post pictures of the SHOP!!!!
