Now I've Done It, I'm In Over My Head

algale · Post by **algale** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:22 pm

While there are examples of potentially extremely valuable pieces of antique furniture that lost considerable value due to poor stripping and refinishing using inappropriate modern materials, this is more of a Antiques Roadshow myth than a fact. In the antiques trade, even very valuable antiques can be restored using period appropriate materials with no decrease in value and frequently an increase in value. I used to a be a regular at the Winterthur Museum Furniture Forum, a yearly conference. This was a subject covered a few years ago titled "What is an Original Surface" or something like that. The main point: there are NO original surfaces after two hundred years of exposure to the environment and resulting oxidation to say nothing of hundreds of years of exposure to smoke and various furniture "polishes". The whole grunge movement started because of an influential article about painted windsor furniture that was being stripped destroying the intended design of the furniture; the author, who spoke to us, said he never intended that dealers/collectors would apply this same concept to unpainted furniture resulting in leaving grungy, alligatored, oxidized surfaces that hid the beautiful figured woods that cabinet makers used in the past and which were frequently carefully selected and employed as an important part of the overall design. Such furniture, he said, should be cleaned and restored.

Regardless of whether you buy that or believe that grunge is beautiful and valuable, remember the whole debate over whether to refinish or not relates to highly valuable antiques. This appears to be a family heirloom and not a highly valuable antique. You will not be losing value, other than sentimental value, whatever you choose to do as to reglueing or refinishing. If you wanted to go with the least invasive method, I would see whether the joints can be swelled tight without dissassembly using one of the commercial products. Here's one. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page ... e%20joints

Then a coat of wax buffed out will go a long way to making the chair usable and still looking like "grandma's chair".

Good luck,

Al

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:24 pm

This was Grandma's chair but it certainly is not in the condition that Grandma would have had it be. This shows clearly that it has not be cared for by someone who cared. That is unfortunate.

We want to put it back into a condition where it can be seen and used. It is not a valuable antique just a chair with sentimental value and one that provokes many memories.

Nearly all of the joints are very loose. With just a couple exceptions, the various pieces can be dismantled with no force at all. It must, somehow, be re-glued.

My wife plans to clean and oil or wax. No refinish.

Gene Howe · Post by **Gene Howe** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:30 pm

Hi Dusty.
Al beat me to it on the swelling stuff. I use a product called "Chair Lok". Works great. No glue needed. None of my repairs have loosened in 8 years.

dan1999 · Post by **dan1999** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:44 pm

Gene, Living in Canada and more specifically Quebec which is damned near as good as Somalia when it comes to new things available to woodworkers, I am interested in "Chair Lok" what is this? Obviously you have tried it, does it have a long set time to it? Is it like urethane that swells when you add water? I couldn't find it on the internet, where is it available in the States?

Beeg, when I was referring to hide glue I was most definitely referring to the flakes, regretably the same scenerio as in the above I don't get enough exposure to a lot of the stuff you guys in the States have.

I have not tried liquid hide glue, don't think I even knew it existed.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:59 pm

Dan1999 here's some info on hide glue.

http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.ASP?UserType=1&ProdSel=ProductCategoryTB.asp?prodcat=1

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:13 pm

beeg wrote:Dan1999 here's some info on hide glue.

http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.ASP?UserType=1&ProdSel=ProductCategoryTB.asp?prodcat=1

Thank you beeg. I appreciate the info. I thought I was going to need a hot glue pot. This cleared up that myth.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:45 pm

Hi Dusty

Long time no see but I'll be there in early November.

As for the chair repair (and just to put the fox among the chickens) I have a few suggestions.
1) Determine what kind of glue was used originally. If the chair is antique you may be in luck and it was assembled , as all chairs should be (IMHO), with hot hide glue. If so it will come apart easily after the application of a hot wet rag for a few minutes. No cleaning or removal of old glue is necessary. Just re-glue with new hide glue. It's not as hard as people say it is. It is the best glue for the job. Hot is generally better than liquid, strength wise, but liquid is OK if you check the date on the bottle.
2) If it's not hide glue, and since so much has failed it likely isn't, then you will have a little more trouble disassembling it and you will have to remove all the old glue. I would still recommend Hot hide glue as it's just what should be used here.
3) Many glues will do the job but hot hide glue is stronger than most of them, reversible, more easily cleaned up, won't interfere with finishing, and requires no clamping.
4) These are just my opinions and I'm sure some won't agree but that's why we have forums isn't it.

If this can wait I'd be more than happy to help. I have hide glue in GV.

Paul M

Gene Howe · Post by **Gene Howe** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:44 pm

Paul,
I'll bet Dusty can wait but, can Momma?:D

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:49 pm

Thank you Paul for the offer and the advise.

This chair has waited a long time but so has the Mrs. I sense that it should wait no longer.

It appears as though nearly all the joints are nothing more than bar handed twist a part connections. I have had several separated already. There does not seem to be a glue residue which is probably good for me but how was the chair being held together all these years?

I have the chair (in two pieces) sitting on the bench now. I have been contemplating how to proceed with disassembly.

Gene Howe · Post by **Gene Howe** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:50 pm

dan1999 wrote:Gene, Living in Canada and more specifically Quebec which is damned near as good as Somalia when it comes to new things available to woodworkers, I am interested in "Chair Lok" what is this? Obviously you have tried it, does it have a long set time to it? Is it like urethane that swells when you add water? I couldn't find it on the internet, where is it available in the States?

Beeg, when I was referring to hide glue I was most definitely referring to the flakes, regretably the same scenerio as in the above I don't get enough exposure to a lot of the stuff you guys in the States have.
I have not tried liquid hide glue, don't think I even knew it existed.

Dan,
I understand about the lack of supplies. Here in N. AZ, we envy the Somalians.

Here's a link to a site in the states.
Chairloc

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Now I've Done It, I'm In Over My Head

Chair Lok??