Newbie question

[mranum]

Hi all, I've been looking at Shopsmiths lately and decide to bite the bullet and get a used one. Whatever I get will be more of an addition to my shop. not so much building my shop around it. Mainly lathe, sanding, and drill press.

On the early "Green Machines", what if any are the operational differences between that and say one built in the mid 70's?

How much different are the main carrage that holds the table than like the model 500?

Will the accessories today work on most of the older units as well?

I'd love to have a 510 or 520 but thats not an option at this point.

[Nick]

I too have an older Shopsmith that I use mainly as a sanding station and occasionally as a lathe. Set up with a belt sander and drum sander on the base, a disc on the quill, and a contour sanding drum (754200) at ready, it makes the world's best sanding machine; there is no other stationary or bench top power tool on the market that can come close, not even close to close.

If you buy an older machine, there are three major improvements that we made in later machines that you will want to consider as upgrades. The first and most important is the two-bearing quill. The run-out on the older single-bearing quills was .005" at best, considerably more once they saw a little wear. The run-out on a new two-bearing quill is .001". If you're using this machine as a drill press, then you will want to replace the quill first thing.

The second is the table carriage. On older machines, only a single trunnion locks the table at the desired angle. The table is more secure and more stable on newer machines in which both trunnions -- front and back -- lock. Finally, the fence and auxiliary tables are more secure and more versatile on later machines. The newer fences lock front and back, and have T-tracks for mounting accessories. Auxiliary tables, floating tables, and tie bars let you build a work surface to match the job. More importantly, by tying the main table to an auxiliary table, you improve the accuracy of operations that involve the fence and/or the miter slots ten-fold. (Drew and I should do a video tip to emphasize that little tidbit; it's not widely known but it's extremely important when repeatable accuracy is worth six dollars a thousandth.)

Most major accessoriies will work on older (Model 500) machines, although occasionally you will have to buy the Model 500 version of an acessory (example: saw arbors). These won't work with your machine if you later decide to bite another bullet and do an upgrade.

With all good wishes,

[paulmcohen]

On the early "Green Machines", what if any are the operational differences between that and say one built in the mid 70's?

How much different are the main carrage that holds the table than like the model 500?

Will the accessories today work on most of the older units as well?

I'd love to have a 510 or 520 but thats not an option at this point.

I know little about Shopsmith models before the the 500, from the pictures I have seen they they are very different and many things will not fit. This is also backed up by the catalog where many accessories have "X" through the early machines. I also believe the motors were 3/4 HP and there is some debate about there being enough power, I stress debate.

I also believe they use pulleys to change speed vs. the dial on 500 and never machines. Even if you decide to go with a 500 you want to make sure you get a newer unit (still 25+ years old) with the 1 1/8" HP motor.

If you don't plan on using the table saw the carriage and safety issue differences will not matter much. The newer 500's forward have the sanding disk enclosed with a dust collection port, this did not exist before the 500, for the (early?) 500's it was an upgrade.

If you get serious about turning you will want a Universal Tool Rest which requires a 500 or later.

My bottom line try to get a 500, the newer the better but of course it is your money.

[solicitr]

Mranum:

Since I'm something of a history geek I've looked into the Shopsmith's development in the whopping two weeks since I joined the fraternity.

A summary can be found here: http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/toolhistory.htm

The original SS was the 1947 10E/10ER, which was cast-iron, came without a base (you had to make your own), and speed changes were made by shifting belts on the exposed pulleys.

Then in 1953 came the Mark V model 500*, which remained remarkably unchanged from the 'greenies' down to its discontinuation in the 90's, and in fact in its key components, the base and headstock, largely identical to today's 510 and 520.

The three principal changes: in about 1962, the drive belt was changed from a cogged "Gilmer" belt to a poly-v belt; in 1964 the motor was upgraded from 3/4 hp to 1-1/8 hp, and finally in 1984 the single-bearing quill was replaced with a two-bearing design.

There have been numerous small changes, mostly pretty trivial: for instance, on my '78 the protractor head was clamped with a cam lever rather than a screw knob. Generally, though, the only real compatability issue is between things designed for the new 505/510/520 carriage and table, rather than the smaller 500 version. Any 500 of any age can be upgraded to 510/520.

* I don't know (yet) when the term 'Model 500' came into use; it may not have been until the 510 debuted in the Eighties. Nonetheless '500' accurately describes any Mark V with the small table.

[paulmcohen]

Mranum:
There have been numerous small changes, mostly pretty trivial: for instance, on my '78 the protractor head was clamped with a cam lever rather than a screw knob.

What is a projector?

[reible]

"for instance, on my '78 the protractor head was clamped with a cam lever rather than a screw knob."

I think you will find that was someones doing and not a shopsmith thing... I have a 1976 and a 1980 and have been working with someone with a 1979 and all have the standard knob. I also own an older model off a greenie and it too has the stand knob.

FYI the standard knob works quite well and the holes let you use your allen wrench to tighten or loosen... more then enough leverage.
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More on subject:

I think Nick forgot to mention if you get one with the older gilmer belt machines and want to put in the new quill you also need to change out other parts... a call to shopsmith will provide you the parts list and instructions.

Ed

[mranum]

Thanks for the input everyone, much appreciated.

I'm not too concerned with the blade guard issues as I doubt I will use it as a table saw much as I already have a nice sized table saw / router table station with a 56" x 48" top and a 10" Delta radial arm and a 14" band saw. I'm looking for it to do basically everything but saw work.

From the research I have done on the website it would appear that the Green Mark V should have the variable speed as someone mentioned earlier, and should be able to hold the belt sander for the Mark V. But then again I have never had or used one which is why I am here with the experts.

[paulmcohen]

Mranum:

Since I'm something of a history geek I've looked into the Shopsmith's development in the whopping two weeks since I joined the fraternity.

A summary can be found here: http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/toolhistory.htm

Has anyone ever seen a history of the Special Purpose Tools (SPT), My Bandsaw I thought came with my 500 in the 1982 but it has what looks to be a date like serial number from the 1990's.

[solicitr]

Reible:

Hmmm, that's very interesting. Because the butterfly-lever cam that came on mine is an aluminum casting, the whole thing plainly factory, not a shop job; and moreover the hole in the miter bar is NOT the same size as that for the knob stud (I learned this when the 520 kit arrived). The protractor head itself, the hold-down clamp, the plunger housing are all standard Shopsmith.

So could I actually have a miter gauge from a Mark II or a 10 ER or something?

NB: in making the 520 conversion I found out another detail change- the setscrews that hold the waytubes to the hinged casting come in from underneath - a real PITA - not from the top as shown in the parts diagram. (How did I learn this? Because the previous owner had apparently taken it apart and never retightened them- pulling the tiebar off nearly resulted in disaster!)

Mranum: the protractor head is the cast main body of the miter gauge, the half-round part with the degree scale on it.

paulmcohen: if it helps, there's a table of Bandsaw serial numbers at http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/faq/bandsaw.htm. I don't know of any source for a history of design changes to the SPTs, though. Not yet anyway.

[reible]

Has anyone ever seen a history of the Special Purpose Tools (SPT), My Bandsaw I thought came with my 500 in the 1982 but it has what looks to be a date like serial number from the 1990's.

Something like this?

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/faq/bandsaw.htm

Ed