Will Mark V 500 Rip Fence fit a Model 10ER

wesimmonds · Post by **wesimmonds** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:55 am

Those excellent photos of feather board setups are certainly helpful to me, and your ominous warnings about accidents and kickback have caused me to seriously rethink my plan. In my prior plan, if the fences were set just far enough apart to apart to allow the board to slide through freely along its entire length (before moving the table down enough for the blade to protrude, and before commencing a cut), then it seemed to me (from my novice perspective) that there would be no way for the fence to press the board against the side of the blade during the cut and cause a kick-back. However, your warnings have caused me to rethink that if I (or any other member of my family) was ever in a hurry and had the back ends of the fences just a little too close together without checking, then the two sides of the kerf could be squeezed togther against the sides of the blade and cause the kickback/accident that you have warned me of.

I like all of the solutions that have been suggested to make the setup safe, namely: 1) Feather boards; 2) Second fence with offset; and 3) Short board clamped to table; with all 3 of those techniques stopping at the leading edge of the blade to prevent the wood from being pressed against the side of the blade and causing a kickback. I will use all 3 of those suggestions wherever most appropriate.

Many of the feather board photos seem to rely on T-slots for attaching (and my Model 10ER has no T-slots) so featherboard setup setup would become more complicated. However, I can still imagine ways to use the feather boards even without T-slots. For the suggestion about a second fence with offsets, I intend to permanently attach thin boards (with epoxy glue) to both sides of my second fence so the boards come to an end at the leading edge of the blade. The epoxy glue would make sure that neither I nor any member of my family would ever think about using the 2nd fence without the offset boards attached. A second fence with offsets is probably a quicker and easier setup than clamping a board to the table so I would probably use the offset fence more often than clamped boards.

Thanks again for you very helpful insights. You have probably saved me from some pain.

(PS: Some of the feather board photos seem to show them installed at positions where they would push the board squarely against the side of the saw blade. Is there something about the design of the feather boards that would prevent a kick-back or kick-up when the wood is being pressed right against the side of a spinning blade? )

(PS: Please don't let this discussion about accidents/kick-backs lose sight of my previous question to find out if anybody knows of a better fence for the 10ER than the one with the front locking bolt that is exactly perpendicular to the table's slide rail. If anybody knows of a better 10ER fence, please comment further.)

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:07 am

The feather boards fit into the miter gauge slot, not t-slots. They should fit the 10ER slots. They have adjustable width(wedge in place).

The pix showing featherboards in the blade area were probably intended to be used with a router setup, not a saw.

ray1942 · Post by **ray1942** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:41 am

Feather boards are the safest method to do the cut you want to do. The flexable fingers allow for slight width variations in the board you are cutting, whereas the other two methods do not.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:28 am

Any feather board used while ripping to hold the wood against the fence should be in front of the blade. Don't overlap the blade with a feather board. It must be in front, otherwise it WILL push the off cut wood into the blade and possibly kicking it back or have some other undesirable outcome.

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:45 am

"Any feather board used while ripping to hold the wood against the fence should be in front of the blade."

Keep in mind this says when ripping ie doing a through cut this is true.

However if you are cutting a groove or a rabbet or molding cuts (those are not through cuts) you can have feather boards past the leading edge of the blade.

In the case of shopsmith feather boards you also have the option to have the feather boards in position so that they do not contact the workpiece but are still mounted (due to the slot mounting style). They also let you have a reasonably even pressure against the stock or more pressure towards the start and less pressure at the end of the pass (or the other way round).

They are a very nice design with lots of options of how to use them.

As was pointed out, they will work in almost any miter slot including ones that you cut yourself like shown here:

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/attachm ... 1314734802

In the case shown here:

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/attachm ... 1230081386

The feather boards are attached to fixture, this fixtures is then clamped to an adjacent table that has no miter slot, again showing how one might use them on extension or floating tables.

I know they are an added expense, a small downside to a huge upside of safety, convenience, and flexibility.

Ed

pennview wrote:Any feather board used while ripping to hold the wood against the fence should be in front of the blade. Don't overlap the blade with a feather board. It must be in front, otherwise it WILL push the off cut wood into the blade and possibly kicking it back or have some other undesirable outcome.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:59 am

Even though a feather board will not press the wood against a saw blade when ripping, having a feather board (or anything else) fixed to the table in some fashion adjacent to the saw blade poses a danger to the operator in that you'll have to maneuver the off cut between the blade and an obstacle, and that introduces a danger that wouldn't be there were the obstacle not there.

If you're someone who ALWAYS turns off the saw and waits for the blade to stop spinning before removing an off-cut, this may not be a problem. But, if you're making repeated cuts, avoid the danger.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:20 am

reible wrote:"Any feather board used while ripping to hold the wood against the fence should be in front of the blade."

Keep in mind this says when ripping ie doing a through cut this is true.

However if you are cutting a groove or a rabbet or molding cuts (those are not through cuts) you can have feather boards past the leading edge of the blade.

In the case of shopsmith feather boards you also have the option to have the feather boards in position so that they do not contact the workpiece but are still mounted (due to the slot mounting style). They also let you have a reasonably even pressure against the stock or more pressure towards the start and less pressure at the end of the pass (or the other way round).

They are a very nice design with lots of options of how to use them.

As was pointed out, they will work in almost any miter slot including ones that you cut yourself like shown here:

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/attachment.htm?attachmentid=14243&d=1314734802

In the case shown here:

http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/attachment.htm?attachmentid=2631&d=1230081386

The feather boards are attached to fixture, this fixtures is then clamped to an adjacent table that has no miter slot, again showing how one might use them on extension or floating tables.

I know they are an added expense, a small downside to a huge upside of safety, convenience, and flexibility.

Ed

I gotta think about this a bit. I do use a feather board from time to time that I mount on the far side of the blade.

I'm not sure of why or of the task at hand - but - I know I do that.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:47 am

dusty wrote:I gotta think about this a bit. I do use a feather board from time to time that I mount on the far side of the blade.

I'm not sure of why or of the task at hand - but - I know I do that.

Dol et us know why/when you do so if through cutting.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:23 pm

JPG40504 wrote:Dol et us know why/when you do so if through cutting.

I sorta expected to be told why I should NOT do that.

Ed clearly indicated that it should not be done but did not say why.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:49 pm

dusty wrote:I sorta expected to be told why I should NOT do that.

Ed clearly indicated that it should not be done but did not say why.

I offer my thinking(?).

Tis true that the workpiece can get wedged between the fence and the back side of the blade and cause kickback.

Now applying pressure towards the blade with a featherboard on the 'other' side will push the cutoff side to ride against the back side of the blade. Not a pinch to be sure, but an opportunity for grabbing none the less.

I can see the 'logic' in applying this force to prevent the workpiece from drifting away from the fence past the blade, but still it is not a good idea. I doubt it would work well considering the kerf.

If you have been successful in doing so, you can thank the riving knife.