Got a surprise working on our old Astro van

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:52 pm

Well based on how much shaking and rattling and rolling my Road King Classic did when it was idling I can see why you might want to over tighten that oil filter on that out-of-balance V-Twin

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:01 pm

dforeman wrote:One of the main reasons I hate to let other people work on my equipment. But, I know sometimes it can't be helped.

Just last week I changed the oil in my bike. It was previously serviced by my local Harley Dealer (due to warranty requirements). Well, they had the darned thing spun on so tight it turned a fairly remedial task into an all day project. A couple hours later, after a lot of grunting, a few choice words, and a few holes from driving a screw driver through the filter the darned thing finally decided to come loose. Why people seem to think an oil filter needs to be drawn down like that is beyond me? I read in a service manual a long time ago that oil filters only need to be hand tight (tight enough to keep from leaking and vibrating loose). And, I have always found that to be true. Plus, it makes servicing a lot easier. Ok, rant over!

Anyway, I can sympathize from where you are coming from. Unless you do it yourself, you don't really know for sure what is being completed. Asking for the old parts is a good idea but not all shops will honor that request.

Through the years I have enjoyed removing stuck oil filters. Most were done by someone else and I got to remove them but a few were done by me. Of the ones that were done by me I know for a fact I only hand tightened them.

I make it a habit to oil the rubber gasket before I put them on, and then spin them on hand tight. Yet I have had them stick and stick bad. Why I don't know.

After I got them off I could find no valid reason like a cross threading or seized gasket.

I chocked this up as a mystery of life and learned not to cuss the last guy that did a filter change on my car.

fredsheldon · Post by **fredsheldon** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:35 pm

robinson46176 wrote:Both of those plugs were on the back of the drivers side (cylinders 3 & 5), not the back two, only one was a rear cylinder. Both were on the west side.

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Farmer, I was hoping you would see that I was making an attempt to pull your leg with my observation that the back two cyls didn't fire all the time to save fuel. I need to wet'in up my sense of humor a bit

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:49 pm

fredsheldon wrote:Farmer, I was hoping you would see that I was making an attempt to pull your leg with my observation that the back two cyls didn't fire all the time to save fuel. I need to wet'in up my sense of humor a bit

Right now I am not sure that any of them are firing all of the time...

.

wiredone · Post by **wiredone** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:00 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote:Through the years I have enjoyed removing stuck oil filters. Most were done by someone else and I got to remove them but a few were done by me. Of the ones that were done by me I know for a fact I only hand tightened them.

I make it a habit to oil the rubber gasket before I put them on, and then spin them on hand tight. Yet I have had them stick and stick bad. Why I don't know.

After I got them off I could find no valid reason like a cross threading or seized gasket.

I chocked this up as a mystery of life and learned not to cuss the last guy that did a filter change on my car.

Yeah, I've run into that too. I know damned well that I have always installed oil filters hand tight. When I was with VW, we were encouraged to actually torque the filters to factory spec, (which we did) as the dealer had been sued once over a leaky filter/blown engine situation. In either case, with customers vehicles and with my own cars and bikes, I've redone my own oil changes many many times.
I'm amazed how many of those properly installed filters were hard to remove. Heat I imagine. I stopped blaming other mechanics after a while. Especially on the bikes. They get really, really hot. (aircooled)

billmeyer · Post by **billmeyer** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:46 pm

I have had oil filters like that! I fought one for 3 days that had a filter in a tight spot.

A co-worker of mine had a problem with his oil drain plug. It was leaking after an oil change and when he tried to tighten it, it was stripped. We worked in a TG&Y store with an auto service center. He went back and complained to the Auto manager and told him he thought that the guy who serviced it used an impact wrench on the drain plug. The manager got very upset and told him that his guy was a great mechanic and would never do a dumb thing like that. The argument got a little intense and they went back in the shop so the mechanic could deny it. When they walked back, there he was tightening an oil drain plug with an impact wrench. My co-worker got a new oil pan installed for free.

Bill

dforeman · Post by **dforeman** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:05 pm

Yeah. I can see where the filter on these Harleys does need to be a little tighter due to vibration. So, I did tighten it down just a bit more than hand tight (probably a qtr turn). But, they still should not be so tight they can't be removed. Especially, with this filter that sits right up next to the block. However, I do have to say that Harley has done a lot better with balancing the newer V-Twins.

I had a filter one time on a Mini-van at work that I had to literally peal the the thing apart like a banana to get off. And, that filter was installed by a state service tech (by no means the vehicles first oil change). And, I also had one on my previous car (Chevy Cavalier) that was on so tight from the factory that I wound up taking it to the dealer to get it off. I'm guessing the filter was installed and torque down before they put the motor in on the assembly line. So, I seriously doubt this one will be my last frustrating filter.

Anyway, this just kind of adds to my point of letting others work on my equipment. You just don't know what some of these places are doing or using (unless it is somebody you know and trust or you are right there watching their every move). But, I concede that there are times when you have no choice (limited tools/equipment, specs, time, etc). I've read several articles about Jiffy Lube and the crap/el'cheepo oil they put in engines. They have even been known for putting in the wrong grade of oil from time to time. They just put in whatever grade they have on hand (current grade/weight or what not). And, you have no idea because they just use an automatic spigot pulling from a barrel someplace. Once in a while they get hit with having to replace an engine here and there. But considering the quantity of oil changes they do, they just consider those situations as a cost of doing business.

saminmn · Post by **saminmn** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:39 pm

Back when personal coups were the fad (think Monti Carlo) a friend of mine bought a Cutlas I think. Anyway, he changed 6 of 8 spark plugs for the first change of plugs because of the 2 special tools needed for the other plugs. The next time he needed plugs he took it back to the dealer. He must have had an idea of what might happen at a big city dealership because when he picked it up, he checked the invoice, yep 8 new plugs. Then he went out to the car, checked the problem plugs, all grimy. The dealership was most apologetic:D