I was doing some work on our old Chevy Astro van and one of the things I was doing was putting in a new set of spark plugs. The last time I was busy and took it to a mechanic I have known for a very long time and have always trusted. He has always done an excellent job and been fair. He has gotten busier over the years and has been hiring some extra help. Anyone familiar with an Astro with a 4.3 in it will tell you that changing the back 2 plugs in the driver's side will teach you how to swear... Especially if you are old, overweight and having to do it laying on the ground. I had changed all of the plugs except those 2 since you can change the rest by pulling the wheel and reach them from the side. I was whining about them to my son who had dropped in. He immediately grabbed the tools and dove under the van and changed both of them for me (he is a keeper).
The surprise was that the 2 plugs that he pulled out were AC original equipment which were badly burned. These are supposed to be something like 100,000 mile plugs and I really think that those 2 were quite possibly the original plugs that came in the car new. The other 4 were Champion plugs and all really looked decent. This guy is "REALLY" fussy about his work so it had to be one of the guys working for him that did this. So I paid for 6 new plugs and got 4... This has been about 2 years ago that I had that done and that employee is probably long gone... There is a lot of turn-over in mechanics. There are a lot of good ones out there but skimping a job like that not only hurts the customer it hurts the shop owner and it hurts all good honest mechanics out there...
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farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
Farmer, I think GM designed that engine to run only on the front 4 cyls unless extra power was required. It was part of the push to get better gas mileage. So, those rear 2 plugs didn't fire most of the time and probably didn't require replacing at the time. Now you have every right to disagree with me on this and it won't hurt my feeling
Fred Sheldon
The Woodlands, Tx
'52 10ER # 60869 (restored in 2012, used as a dedicated drill press), '52 10ER # 88712 (restored 01/2013), 52 10ER # 71368 (in process of restoring), '83 500 Shorty with OPR installed, '83 520 PowerPro with Lift Assist, 6" Joiner, 6" Belt Sander, 18" Jig Saw, 11" Band Saw, 12" ProPlaner, SS Crosscut Table. SS Dust Collector, Hitachi 1/2" router, Work Sharp 3000 with all attachement, Nova G3 Chuck, Universal Tool Rest, Appalachia Tool Works Sled.
fredsheldon wrote:Farmer, I think GM designed that engine to run only on the front 4 cyls unless extra power was required. It was part of the push to get better gas mileage. So, those rear 2 plugs didn't fire most of the time and probably didn't require replacing at the time. Now you have every right to disagree with me on this and it won't hurt my feeling
So WHY was he charged for 6 plugs and probably the labor for 6 plugs to?
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop. .
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Bob
beeg wrote:So WHY was he charged for 6 plugs and probably the labor for 6 plugs to?
Uh Huh! And the condition indicates they needed to be replaced.
Being 'idle' most if the time probably added to fouling quicker than the other 4.
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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
Mr Robinson, you aren't gonna want to hear this, but as an ex mechanic and also shop-super etc, I can say for sure it's your duty to tell your friend what went on 2 years ago.
He needs to know. Most repair shops have a space on the repair order that notes which "tech" did the work. This will enable him to keep closer tabs on his guys or gals, and keep this from happening.
ALSO always ask for the old parts back, it "helps" to keep honest people honest.
I always want to help someone stay honest rather than catch them being crooks.
I agree with wiredone, I would take all six plugs to him. I would lay them on the counter and say these came out of my Astro. Your garage was the last place to change the plugs.
I would not get nasty but I would let him know that he has/had an employee that needs close supervision.
If he is half of what you think he is he will take it from there and insure this never happens again.
Be gentle with him he will be embarassed and I imagine his male ego will want to defend himself. Let the 6 plus do the talking.
Ed in Tampa wrote:I agree with wiredone, I would take all six plugs to him. I would lay them on the counter and say these came out of my Astro. Your garage was the last place to change the plugs.
I would not get nasty but I would let him know that he has/had an employee that needs close supervision.
If he is half of what you think he is he will take it from there and insure this never happens again.
Be gentle with him he will be embarassed and I imagine his male ego will want to defend himself. Let the 6 plus do the talking.
I would be more 'direct'.
"I know you want to know about this."
Like you say, let the parts do the talking.
I am sure he will ask who what when where.
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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
Both of those plugs were on the back of the drivers side (cylinders 3 & 5), not the back two, only one was a rear cylinder. Both were on the west side.
There won't be a confrontation, we are older and better friends than that. It will be a case of "a word to the wise is sufficient". I will see him somewhere and while chatting I will mention it. You are right, he will want to know. I would have wanted to know back when I was doing that kind of work. In my case though I always worked alone or with my son so any potential problems would have always been my fault.
I am having a rough running problem with this thing and just started with the plugs because I knew they had quite a few miles on them and they are fairly cheap (not real cheap though, double platinum).
One of my bigger problems is that engine controls were simpler back when I did a lot of this stuff and these days I get out the books and read up on things but forget too much stuff from one time to the next. I have to read and figure out stuff all over again and try to remember it over night.
It has a very hot spark. I actually expect to find that the problem is fuel supply related. The next step is a new fuel filter and a fuel pressure test, then I will start testing sensors etc.
It's one of those silly problems where it will be running badly then the next time it will run well then go back to running awful again. It has a recent cap and rotor and while these things tend to have cap problems those tend to be more consistently bad.
I get really annoyed with the inside hood on this thing, it's a major pain removing it. I drove an old full sized 1975 Ford van for a long time years ago and you just pulled two cap screws at the floor and flipped two latches at the firewall and lifted it out. This thing has a bunch of plastic stuff to remove just to get to the hood.
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farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
robinson46176 wrote:a mechanic I have known for a very long time and have always trusted. He has always done an excellent job and been fair.
I would guess this guy would like to know.. sounds like an honest guy who has worked hard to establish a good reputation.
Bruce
I didn't know what a Shopsmith was...
Three days later I owned one...
One week later I was rebuilding one...
Four months later I owned two....
Ok Ok, I'm up to four now...
One of the main reasons I hate to let other people work on my equipment. But, I know sometimes it can't be helped.
Just last week I changed the oil in my bike. It was previously serviced by my local Harley Dealer (due to warranty requirements). Well, they had the darned thing spun on so tight it turned a fairly remedial task into an all day project. A couple hours later, after a lot of grunting, a few choice words, and a few holes from driving a screw driver through the filter the darned thing finally decided to come loose. Why people seem to think an oil filter needs to be drawn down like that is beyond me? I read in a service manual a long time ago that oil filters only need to be hand tight (tight enough to keep from leaking and vibrating loose). And, I have always found that to be true. Plus, it makes servicing a lot easier. Ok, rant over!
Anyway, I can sympathize from where you are coming from. Unless you do it yourself, you don't really know for sure what is being completed. Asking for the old parts is a good idea but not all shops will honor that request.
Especially if you are old, overweight and having to do it laying on the ground. I had changed all of the plugs except those 2 since you can change the rest by pulling the wheel and reach them from the side. I was whining about them to my son who had dropped in. He immediately grabbed the tools and dove under the van and changed both of them for me (he is a keeper). 
