Shopsmith Forums

JPG40504 wrote:My guess as to some confusing pix/posts.

1) Dusty's pix is of a power station motor.

2) Dave's pix is of a power station motor installed in his crafter's station.

3) The power station motor has the red and black wires, but they are connected to only run one direction(see Dusty's pix).

4) I think your assumptions re terminals #2 and #3 are correct.

5) I think you have the determined failing part, but have not yet determined the cause.

IIWM, I would be taking the relay apart to determine why is is not picking. It may have something interfering with the armature sealing. It may have crudded up pivots. It may have a damaged coil(burned etc.).

Yes. That image appears to be an inappropriate shot]22496[/ATTACH]

There are six wires in the Crafter's Station cable that all terminate in the motor.

Note that the red wire comes from within the motor (not from a terminal block). Also note that the black and blue wires are connected together.

The two yellow crimp connectors that I used here are inappropriate parts for what they are being used. One does nothing more than connect the two red wires together. The other does nothing more than connect the blue wire to the black wire. There are NO Wires connected to the other ends of these splices.

dstensland wrote:Hi Dusty,

Thanks for the help!

Our wiring is different. We have the six wire cable harness while your photo shows just three wires coming down from the upper controls. That's confusing because your other diagrams, such as the relay diagram, indicate that we should see orange, blue, and red wires down at the motor as well.

Here's the mess I came home with...


-Dave

I'm sorry, Dave, for the confusion that I have caused by posting a picture of the wrong motor configuration. I have posted, later in this thread, the picture that should have been here.

dstensland wrote:Hi Dusty,

Thanks for the help!

Our wiring is different. We have the six wire cable harness while your photo shows just three wires coming down from the upper controls. That's confusing because your other diagrams, such as the relay diagram, indicate that we should see orange, blue, and red wires down at the motor as well.

Here's the mess I came home with...


-Dave

I'm sorry, Dave, for the confusion that I have caused by posting a picture of the wrong motor configuration. I have posted, later in this thread, the picture that should have been here.

Based on all that you have said, I would like to venture a guess as to where your problem is.

I believe you have corroded contacts on the relay. I believe the corrosion is on either contacts #9 and #6 or #7 and #4. These are the relay contacts that must "make" to reverse the direction of the motor.

I suggest that you remove the relay, remove the plastic cover from the relay and burnish those specific relay contacts. I use jewelers files to do something like this but a strip of very fine sand paper will do the same thing. You could also measure the resistance across those contacts; the resistance should be very low. I would expect 2-3 ohms is typical. The solenoid (pins a & b) would need to have 110vac applied (polarity does not matter).

The fact that the buzzing occurs when you attempt to run in Accessory Mode indicates to me that the relay solenoid is getting the command to energize. At the same time, the motor runs but in the wrong direction which indicates that the rest of the circuitry is OKAY.

There is a very remote chance that one deck of the dpst "accessory switch" has a set of very high resistance contacts. If those contacts are excessively resistant, the voltage to actuate the solenoid would be lowered resulting POSSIBLY in too low a voltage to properly actuate the solenoid (thus some buzzing).

JPG and Dusty,

Last night after I ordered the replacement relay I, too, wondered why the old one failed. Normally, I'm the last guy to advocate repairing switches or relays, but this particular relay was designed for easy access and the contacts remained in good shape despite the recent arcing.

A few minutes ago I opened it up the relay out of curiosity.

It turns out that the relay failed because something was causing the armature hinge to bind and not travel into the on position. I can't say for sure, but it seems like a something had knocked the hinge out of place, or perhaps there was a spec of rust that had formed while the machine sat dormant. In either case, a slight force with one finger "snapped" the hinge back into place, and the relay immediately started to work. I carefully applied a little sil-glyde with a toothpick to help keep it limber and re-installed the relay into the machine. It worked.

Now I can use the scroll saw and band saws on my new toy!

I'm a little bothered by the fact that I ordered a new and rather expensive relay, but it's good to know that I have a fresh one on the way in case it's needed in the future, and can put this machine into service right away.

Best regards,
-Dave

dstensland wrote:JPG and Dusty,

Last night after I ordered the replacement relay I, too, wondered why the old one failed. Normally, I'm the last guy to advocate repairing switches or relays, but this particular relay was designed for easy access and the contacts remained in good shape despite the recent arcing.

A few minutes ago I opened it up the relay out of curiosity.

It turns out that the relay failed because something was causing the armature hinge to bind and not travel into the on position. I can't say for sure, but it seems like a something had knocked the hinge out of place, or perhaps there was a spec of rust that had formed while the machine sat dormant. In either case, a slight force with one finger "snapped" the hinge back into place, and the relay immediately started to work. I carefully applied a little sil-glyde with a toothpick to help keep it limber and re-installed the relay into the machine. It worked.

Now I can use the scroll saw and band saws on my new toy!

I'm a little bothered by the fact that I ordered a new and rather expensive relay, but it's good to know that I have a fresh one on the way in case it's needed in the future, and can put this machine into service right away.

Best regards,
-Dave

I am very pleased to hear that you have it up and running - even if my prognosis was in "left field".

One word of caution. Whenever you want to reverse direction of rotation, turn the machine off and allow it to come to a complete stop before you turn it on in the other mode.

If the motor has slowed enough for the centrifugal switch to relax but has not stopped, when you apply power for the alternate direction of rotation - the motor will be working against the kinetic energy of that rotation.

I don't know that this will cause a problem but I will not test it. There are more than a few reports of problems with the Crafter's Station. Why beg for one of those reports to be about your machine.

From an engineering technician's point of view, I see nothing wrong with the electrical design of the Crafter's Station. Mine has worked perfectly ever since I replaced the cobbled up cabling that was done by the PO.

PS Please consider filling in your Personal Profile so that we know a little bit about where you are located. No complete address or phone number. Nothing too personal or too specific. Just a general location. I am in Tucson, AZ.

Hooray!!!!

Good advice from Dusty re off/on timing.

Only the start circuit determines direction, and does so only if the centrifugal start switch contacts are made.

The start circuit(including the relay) has no effect on running direction if the armature is rotating fast enough to hold the start switch contacts open.

Since the switches are on opposite sides, one would have to 'go out of their way' to creates this 'issue'.

forgive my ignorance I am new to SS, what is a Crafter's Station.

fightingseabee wrote:forgive my ignorance I am new to SS, what is a Crafter's Station.

A crafter's station is a power station with a saw table(510 vintage). It is under powered for the saw function, but does provide that function.

Power station http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/powerstation.htm

The crafter's station is no longer in production.

fightingseabee wrote:forgive my ignorance I am new to SS, what is a Crafter's Station.

The Crafter's Station is said by some to be under powered as a table saw but that is a matter of opinion and is dependent upon what you need to cut. From someone who owns one, I find it to be a very useful power tool.

I occasionally need to do typical woodworking around the kids homes (none of them have shops yet). I load the Crafter's Station into the pickup and go. The SPT that work with the Mark V can be used with the Crafter's Station (or Power Station)]22497[/ATTACH]

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