Shopsmith Forums

JPG wrote:Just returned from a board meeting for a time share owners meeting. Recently had installed a wi-fi system in 50 units. Complaints are currently still rampant!!!

IMHO the location chosen for the APs is asinine(at an extreme 'end' of the units).

I 'think' the responses from the 'provider' we are getting are BS.(moving to a central location will not help!!!)

I merely want to be able do do some analyzing/evaluating myself.

This didn't make sense to me having been with a Cellular provider for 10 years. RF degrades over distance, as you know and can degrade by barriers; e.g. walls, etc. I sent this to my nephew who is the IT Director for a large corp and he said their response is total BS. They don't want to spend time or money to fix it. Any competent provider would have located it centrally for optimum performance and perhaps added some signal boosting equipment further out. Time to take them to the woodhouse and have a chat.

I have a question, what do you expect to prove that you don't already know? Near locations work distant locations don't.
Everyone know WIFI has ranges and the further from the WIFI the lower the quality, that is why they sell WIFI range extenders.

I would get a new provider if they are sitting there with a straight face and saying location doesn't matter. They are either incompetent or lying through their teeth.

Save your money and tell them you want the WIFI installed in a central location and two WIRED extenders at the the extremes. If that solves all the problems great, if not tell them to install more WIRED extender until it does.

Make sure you get wired extenders, the wireless ones are very slow and the more you have the slower they become.

Thank Y'all for the comments.

Part of the problem is those that initiated(management) the installation do not have a clue! They are totally dependent upon the 'provider'.

The cost for 50 units was 10 grand which was a significant expense for us, but not much per unit for the installer to make $.

They took the path of least resistance. There are two telephone jack locations. Guess who did the installing. The far corner was the easiest to obscure from the 'guests'.

Initially I thought the AP would be driven by the TV cable(that still be the internet provider). Somewhere it gets switched over to the telephone system(?????).

The location of the TV cable was perfect!!!

Wish I had taken a more 'pro-active' meddling role when these stu--- decisions were made.

I need something more than common sense to convince the 'management'.

End Rant!


Somebody talked to the wrong 'installer/provider'.

JPG wrote:Thank Y'all for the comments.

Part of the problem is those that initiated(management) the installation do not have a clue! They are totally dependent upon the 'provider'.

The cost for 50 units was 10 grand which was a significant expense for us, but not much per unit for the installer to make $.

They took the path of least resistance. There are two telephone jack locations. Guess who did the installing. The far corner was the easiest to obscure from the 'guests'.

Initially I thought the AP would be driven by the TV cable(that still be the internet provider). Somewhere it gets switched over to the telephone system(?????).

The location of the TV cable was perfect!!!

Wish I had taken a more 'pro-active' meddling role when these stu--- decisions were made.

I need something more than common sense to convince the 'management'.

End Rant!


Somebody talked to the wrong 'installer/provider'.

I wish I lived near you: there is a 30 min fix for this and about a 200 dollar cost. What you need to do is put a couple of simple radios that will place a radio link equivalent of a fiber to either the other end of the building or at least the middle where you can put a second (and third if needed) AP in. If you are interested, shoot me a PM. i used to do this in my sleep ....

rjent wrote:

JPG wrote:Thank Y'all for the comments.

Part of the problem is those that initiated(management) the installation do not have a clue! They are totally dependent upon the 'provider'.

The cost for 50 units was 10 grand which was a significant expense for us, but not much per unit for the installer to make $.

They took the path of least resistance. There are two telephone jack locations. Guess who did the installing. The far corner was the easiest to obscure from the 'guests'.

Initially I thought the AP would be driven by the TV cable(that still be the internet provider). Somewhere it gets switched over to the telephone system(?????).

The location of the TV cable was perfect!!!

Wish I had taken a more 'pro-active' meddling role when these stu--- decisions were made.

I need something more than common sense to convince the 'management'.

End Rant!


Somebody talked to the wrong 'installer/provider'.

I wish I lived near you: there is a 30 min fix for this and about a 200 dollar cost. What you need to do is put a couple of simple radios that will place a radio link equivalent of a fiber to either the other end of the building or at least the middle where you can put a second (and third if needed) AP in. If you are interested, shoot me a PM. i used to do this in my sleep ....

It is not 'a building'.

It is three buildings with 15/15/20 units each. 3 floors/3 floors/4 floors with the 3 floor buildings split level. The APs are at an extreme corner of each unit. The units are 'skewed' to create deeper units without deepening the building.

Realize we already have 50 AP's. I suspect they are interfering with each other. They are closer to two(maybe 5 - MAYBE 8!) adjacent APs than the depth of the units. Also the APs have 3-4 walls between them and the most desirable reception area. Remember I said asinine location.

Had a Fluke Network Analyzer with Wifi and AirMagnet and liked it for site surveys as it was not device centric. I could upload a graphic of my floor plan, and tweak it for elevator shafts, thick firewalls, mechanical room etc. All I had to do was go to a point in the building, and take a reading, then click a point on the floor plan to tell it where I was sampling from. Great for Mesh build outs etc, but I can tell you results with office furniture, file cabinets and modular furniture added are far different than empty floor space.

Aruba used to have a free planner, but it was spotty.

The cost to get site professionally done exceeds the cost of a few more AP’s.

Cisco had tools built in the WAN Manager systems that could manage, actively monitor, and turn radios up and down as needed in real time to fill in for a failing AP, plus they could be redundant with active fail over. Don’t know what budget constraints you have or what fault tolerance and fan out of devices are in play, but having your own tool and a baseline wireless site survey mapping can prove invaluable in long term operations of day to day operations.

The radios themselves with multiple antennas and orientation can be a maddening project to manage even with some tools. Without them, tough.

You really do benefit by investing tools that make the invisible things visible to you but cost is an issue. The hardest part to get actionable decision tree on is what will it cost you to do it vs. what will it cost not to. Your multiple building / multiple floor can exacerbate the problem, yet with outdoor AP’s and a good mesh design, you can have mobile roaming always connected clients.

With 50 AP’s you likely need a management appliance that can push updates, and monitor health and produce real time reporting.

Then comes the application services that have to reside on the network itself and what content, and file sharing loads exist for the organization. Obviously, a spreadsheet, a document, an email are not going to demand what an AutoCad file would. Devil is in the details, and usage is going to grow over time. Staying ahead of that alone can burn up a lot of your time.

Then there is security. Far easier to know when a body is in the building and plugs in a device than a hacker sitting in a car across the parking lot.

What brand of AP's are we talking about?

everettdavis wrote: . . .
What brand of AP's are we talking about?

Waiting for a reply to that question currently. I am assuming I can get tech spec / manual online and then critique the choice/antenna orientation(I think that has been ignored) etc. Basically I am second guessing the installer. The current results do not speak well of their expertise.

Also onsite expertise(employees) is minimal, hence the reliance on the 'provider/installer'.

Yes I am meddling, but the status quo is unacceptable.

Yes $ is a factor. We are frustrated that out 'grand fix' has come up Waaaay short.


FWIW the installer/provider is the telephone co.! I am suspicious this is an initial installation by them.

OK .....

JPG wrote:

rjent wrote:

JPG wrote:Thank Y'all for the comments.

Part of the problem is those that initiated(management) the installation do not have a clue! They are totally dependent upon the 'provider'.

The cost for 50 units was 10 grand which was a significant expense for us, but not much per unit for the installer to make $.

They took the path of least resistance. There are two telephone jack locations. Guess who did the installing. The far corner was the easiest to obscure from the 'guests'.

Initially I thought the AP would be driven by the TV cable(that still be the internet provider). Somewhere it gets switched over to the telephone system(?????).

The location of the TV cable was perfect!!!

Wish I had taken a more 'pro-active' meddling role when these stu--- decisions were made.

I need something more than common sense to convince the 'management'.

End Rant!


Somebody talked to the wrong 'installer/provider'.

I wish I lived near you: there is a 30 min fix for this and about a 200 dollar cost. What you need to do is put a couple of simple radios that will place a radio link equivalent of a fiber to either the other end of the building or at least the middle where you can put a second (and third if needed) AP in. If you are interested, shoot me a PM. i used to do this in my sleep ....

It is not 'a building'.

It is three buildings with 15/15/20 units each. 3 floors/3 floors/4 floors with the 3 floor buildings split level. The APs are at an extreme corner of each unit. The units are 'skewed' to create deeper units without deepening the building.

Realize we already have 50 AP's. I suspect they are interfering with each other. They are closer to two(maybe 5 - MAYBE 8!) adjacent APs than the depth of the units. Also the APs have 3-4 walls between them and the most desirable reception area. Remember I said asinine location.

Assuming I am correct in that moving the APs will 'solve' things, then the next task is determining how at minimal $.

Access to AC power and telephone line in an unobtrusive and tamper free manner is on the board.

That location is ideal, but in a high visibility area(kitchen wall).

So it has to be 'attractive'. i.e. not ugly!

I can generally set up a single AP that will cover 1 or 2 square miles. We can do 300 Mbps at about 600 feet diameter. Sometimes 2 is required based on buildings, layout, terrain, radio noise floor, and trees. Very few people/companies know how to do this BTW. You can't use consumer CPE tech. You have to do it like you know what you are doing .....

With what little I know of your setup, probably one for each building to be safe at about 150 bucks a pop.

I edited this with more info BTW ....

FWIW