Shopsmith Forums

Loved this thread, thanks.

ERLover wrote:Ya JPG the first thing I was thinking too was a cog, like the one on Mnt Washington in NH, noisy thing!!!
Cool, would that be coincided a core less engine? With its exposed crank shafts?

Hmmm... Do you mean core less or Corliss? There is a core less DC motor that obviously has nothing to do with exposed crank shafts. There is also the Corliss steam engine invented by engineer George Henry Corliss in Providence, Rhode Island (my birth place, BTW) some time around 1850. It was a fixed steam engine prime mover mostly. I think it had exposed crank shafts but it was named for the inventer for other reasons.

jsburger wrote:

ERLover wrote:Ya JPG the first thing I was thinking too was a cog, like the one on Mnt Washington in NH, noisy thing!!!
Cool, would that be coincided a core less engine? With its exposed crank shafts?

Hmmm... Do you mean core less or Corliss? There is a core less DC motor that obviously has nothing to do with exposed crank shafts. There is also the Corliss steam engine invented by engineer George Henry Corliss in Providence, Rhode Island (my birth place, BTW) some time around 1850. It was a fixed steam engine prime mover mostly. I think it had exposed crank shafts but it was named for the inventer for other reasons.

Gee you do not look that old(or whodat in your avatar).

tomsalwasser wrote:It's not easy to see in Dennis' video but the locomotive is a Lima Shay geared locomotive. In Minnesota, the first logging era in the mid to late 1800s involved cutting trees and floating logs down rivers to the sawmill. The second era in the early 1900s was a mop up operation using these special geared locomotives on logging railroads in the woods. These locomotives could handle the steeper grades encountered in the forest. Notice the geared wheels in the video below. Those gears mean power. The logging trains hauled the logs on short, temporary spur tracks up to the main line. A few of these locomotives are still in use today as museum trains.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbsbcZKCWDY[/youtube]

I had never seen a geared locomotive before -- thanks Tom!

I have several take-aways from this, now that we have put the non-engineer (read "normal") types to sleep:
1) That mournful whistle sound was awesome -- was this mostly mechanical, or a whistle-operator art form?
2) I suspect that the museums need to find some larger timbers in order for the payloads to be historically accurate.
3) The scenery was gorgeous! Undoubtedly because it hasn't been logged in several decades.
3) We engineers, especially of electrons, bytes, and internet protocols, would do well to remember why we are called engine-eers!!!

BuckeyeDennis wrote:

tomsalwasser wrote:It's not easy to see in Dennis' video but the locomotive is a Lima Shay geared locomotive. In Minnesota, the first logging era in the mid to late 1800s involved cutting trees and floating logs down rivers to the sawmill. The second era in the early 1900s was a mop up operation using these special geared locomotives on logging railroads in the woods. These locomotives could handle the steeper grades encountered in the forest. Notice the geared wheels in the video below. Those gears mean power. The logging trains hauled the logs on short, temporary spur tracks up to the main line. A few of these locomotives are still in use today as museum trains.

. . .

I had never seen a geared locomotive before -- thanks Tom!

I have several take-aways from this, now that we have put the non-engineer (read "normal") types to sleep:
1) That mournful whistle sound was awesome -- was this mostly mechanical, or a whistle-operator art form?
2) I suspect that the museums need to find some larger timbers in order for the payloads to be historically accurate.
3) The scenery was gorgeous! Undoubtedly because it hasn't been logged in several decades.
3) We engineers, especially of electrons, bytes, and internet protocols, would do well to remember why we are called engine-eers!!!

This non-normal engineer(sparky type) is still awake!!!

The whistle valve is controlled by a lanyard(rope) that the 'engineer' pulls to control the valve that allows steam flow to the whistle. All that 'modulation' is the result of varying tension on that lanyard. Each engineer had an individual 'style'. One could tell who the engineer was by the whistle. Still true today with diesel locomotives, but mainly the duration of the individual 'blasts'.

BuckeyeDennis wrote: I had never seen a geared locomotive before -- thanks Tom!

I have several take-aways from this, now that we have put the non-engineer (read "normal") types to sleep:
1) That mournful whistle sound was awesome -- was this mostly mechanical, or a whistle-operator art form?
2) I suspect that the museums need to find some larger timbers in order for the payloads to be historically accurate.
3) The scenery was gorgeous! Undoubtedly because it hasn't been logged in several decades.
3) We engineers, especially of electrons, bytes, and internet protocols, would do well to remember why we are called engine-eers!!!

You're welcome Dennis. First off, how did you find that video? It was made in more modern times but is still old enough to show the old ways. A priceless look into the past, while the past was still the present, not a recreation. Do they still log redwoods? I made a canoe like algale's in 1982 from redwood instead of cedar but I don't recall seeing redwood at the lumber yard these days.

I have been researching a logging railroad in northern Minnesota. The woods are full of forest roads, ATV and snowmobile trails that used to be these temporary logging railroad grades. Some are just grown over now and lost forever. I did find one way back in the woods where the impression of the ties was still in the ground 100 years later. It was in Lima Township, Cass County. Do you know why it's name is Lima Township? Well in 1911 or so the Pine Tree Lumber Co was setting up that area as it's base of operations. To incorporate the township and get a post office, a sign was required off the Soo Line railroad that ran through it. All that was available was a packing crate from the new Shay locomotive they had just acquired from the Lima Locomotive Works, Limo Ohio. So they had a big wooden sign all ready to go that said Lima (packing crate) so they decided that would be the township name.

http://www.shaylocomotives.com/

http://limalocomotiveworks.com/early_years.html

I love that mournful whistle too and I hope someday to get to Cass Scenic Railroad State Park, where the video was made. http://www.cassrailroad.com/

tomsalwasser wrote: You're welcome Dennis. First off, how did you find that video? It was made in more modern times but is still old enough to show the old ways. A priceless look into the past, while the past was still the present, not a recreation. Do they still log redwoods? I made a canoe like algale's in 1982 from redwood instead of cedar but I don't recall seeing redwood at the lumber yard these days.

The answer to the first question is "pure dumb luck". I was Googling to find out what the heck a "frame saw" is, which led me to YouTube. The redwood-lumbering video was YouTube's very next suggestion to watch. It looked interesting, so I clicked on it.

I haven't see much redwood lumber since my parents built a deck of it back in 1970. So I Googled it just now, and you apparently can still get it. Home Depot will sell you four 2x4x8' boards for $53, and Rockler has some big slabs right now for around $1000 each. So I'm thinking that supplies must be pretty limited, especially of the big stuff. Come to think of it, I believe that my kids' 15-year old swingset is made of the stuff, and it wasn't cheap.

I think part of it is also where you are located. I could not find much cedar wood when I was in California but all kinds of redwood. Now that I have moved back to Iowa, I can find all kinds of cedar but not much redwood.

Where I live in northern Mi most of the lumber to rebuild Chicago after the great fire was cut. My grandfather was a logger in the late 1800's and he cut logs in many of the camps around here. The little town was called Sands and the state marked where all the buildings were and where the rail road was. In back of my grandparents place there is still the remains of a tressel that they run the rail cars on to dump the logs in the river. The sign by the town said they hauled 90 car loads of white pine a weeks for 2 1/2 years for Chicago. I have a picture here some where of the train engines they used at that time and I have never seen one like it. When I was in Germany they still used steam engines to haul freight thru the mountains

sawmill wrote:Where I live in northern Mi most of the lumber to rebuild Chicago after the great fire was cut. My grandfather was a logger in the late 1800's and he cut logs in many of the camps around here. The little town was called Sands and the state marked where all the buildings were and where the rail road was. In back of my grandparents place there is still the remains of a tressel that they run the rail cars on to dump the logs in the river. The sign by the town said they hauled 90 car loads of white pine a weeks for 2 1/2 years for Chicago. I have a picture here some where of the train engines they used at that time and I have never seen one like it. When I was in Germany they still used steam engines to haul freight thru the mountains

Great story sawmill. I would love to see the picture of the train engine if you find it. Do you have any pictures from your grandfather taken during his logging days?