Shopsmith Forums

Thanks JPG. I will review and make changes when I can get to a larger screen. Stuck on my phone tonight.

Are the markers spiral around the white wires or are they a running stripe?

Ah ha indeed!!!! The manual copy I sent him is indeed like he showed.

I do think it is indeed incorrect.

There is no way the motor will run with a capacitor in series with the entire motor.

So my apologies to thee Everett. I did not realize the manual version I sent to you was incorrect. It was from a 1965 vintage manual(pdf). that I got online when I had misplaced mine. My hardcopy(now found) is a 1966 version which I assume is a corrected version.

When I get a chance, I will scan the hardcopy and send that to you as well.


The GE motor drawings are also different. The red and black wires(T9 T5) are reversed in the two versions. I venture to say that the 'sent' version is likely incorrect(the motor will have forward/reverse bass akwards.

Finally here is the third version mentioned earlier. An A. O. Smith motor with an external start relay(similar to early GE 3/4hp motors).
I think this provides a clue as to where the "2" and "5" terminal labels came from. They refer to the start relay terminals to which they connect. It also implies it was the first motor used for a Mark VII.

I scribbled in the start relay contact and coil terminations.

Oh, and the 'tracer' is spiral.

JPG wrote:Ah ha indeed!!!! The manual copy I sent him is indeed like he showed.

I do think it is indeed incorrect.

There is no way the motor will run with a capacitor in series with the entire motor.

So my apologies to thee Everett. I did not realize the manual version I sent to you was incorrect. It was from a 1965 vintage manual(pdf). that I got online when I had misplaced mine. My hardcopy(now found) is a 1966 version which I assume is a corrected version.

When I get a chance, I will scan the hardcopy and send that to you as well.


The GE motor drawings are also different. The red and black wires(T9 T5) are reversed in the two versions. I venture to say that the 'sent' version is likely incorrect(the motor will have forward/reverse bass akwards.

Finally here is the third version mentioned earlier. An A. O. Smith motor with an external start relay(similar to early GE 3/4hp motors).

I think this provides a clue as to where the "2" and "5" terminal labels came from. They refer to the start relay terminals to which they connect. It also implies it was the first motor used for a Mark VII.

I scribbled in the start relay contact and coil terminations.

Oh, and the 'tracer' is spiral.

Thanks for the 3rd version and for clarifying there were two different versions of the manual out there, one with incorrect wiring diagrams.

Please send me a high resolution copy of the correctly written manual when you have time.

As to what I am doing with the illustrated parts list for the Mark VII from the other manual, I have attached one of the pages that will be at least 11 x 17 if not a D size drawing when I am done. I have re-done most of them and will wait to see the final manual to see if I need to add illustration corrections.

I am thinking about doing a document somewhat like the Buying a Used Mark V Revisited in which I include photos from the forums, with hot links back to the topics that are most relevant to the 1960's Mark VII.

Here is a sample of the rework. I find that removing the indicator lines, and adding the illustration number on or beside the part in color improves readability and in a number of cases I have re-oriented alignments of exploded parts to help in that process.

You can see what I changed compared to the original drawing at the right. This is just a small letter size sample, but when I am done, I hope to include the parts listing as well on the same pages as the drawings if I can make them fit. Obviously I am going to need the newer manual before I take it to the next level.

I actually like the way the 3rd motor illustration is drawn better than the other two, so I am considering adapting all three drawings to that format for illustrative clarity.

If any photos of the actual wiring on the motors exists, I will attempt to color match the wires in the photos with the colored lines on the drawing if I can obtain such photos.

Thanks so much JPG for your help and sharing your knowledge. I would love to have your recommendations for posts on the Mark VII to reference and hot link back to in the threads as I build out a Mark VII Guidebook.

I have read quite a number of posts you have written on the Mark VII and have seen some great photos already.

I know that Shopsmith Inc. has no reason to invest time in documenting a machine they as a company never made, but in the forums, that knowledge exists. I like preserving things as I suspect most here are passionate about as well.

I am glad to help, but I sure need proof-readers and content corrections to do something responsibly.

Everett

I wired like you showed me motor works both ways.
IM thinking my switch is bad so i going to hook it back to the two toggle switchs until i can get it fix. any Ideas how to wire ? i have 1 two pole
and 1 four pole switchs 20 amp.

How good resolution do you need?

16 pages including front(picture etc.) and back(speed chart)[chart scribbled all over by PO].

Higher resolution means larger files. Jpeg? Pdf?

Not sure how high my scanner goes.

hobbies wrote:I wired like you showed me motor works both ways.
IM thinking my switch is bad so i going to hook it back to the two toggle switchs until i can get it fix. any Ideas how to wire ? i have 1 two pole
and 1 four pole switchs 20 amp.

4 pole switch needs to be double throw with center off.

I did not remember this 'sketch' was for a GE motor. Will add one for an AOSmith later.

JPG wrote:How good resolution do you need?

16 pages including front(picture etc.) and back(speed chart)[chart scribbled all over by PO].

Higher resolution means larger files. Jpeg? Pdf?

Not sure how high my scanner goes.

600 - 1200 DPI Preferred if that is possible. PDF is fine because it compresses well yet enlarges to help identify detail.

This photo is excellent for showing the wire colors.

Thanks James

JPG

Thanks for the new files and for the 3rd motor wiring diagram.

I am going to correct one other error that really is a naming convention deviation from UL CSA wire color designations, by labeling one wire as Purple (which they did in the 1960's manuals) when both UL/CSA and International standards actually designates that color as Violet.

I am working to do my very best at re-drawing all three motor configurations in the same style so that they will all be presented in the same way, and getting the tracer wire base converted to white, with the color tracer which is what they are.

I am working on the whole manual in my spare time, so it may be a while before I get it in a form to show anyone. You are clearly an authoritative source for Mark VII info, and with your permission, I will privately email you a preliminary copy for review, comments and recommendations for additional content, such as the 4P3T on-off-on toggle switch you are showing for them to replace the original OEM push button one.

Everett

everettdavis wrote:JPG

Thanks for the new files and for the 3rd motor wiring diagram.

I am going to correct one other error that really is a naming convention deviation from UL CSA wire color designations, by labeling one wire as Purple (which they did in the 1960's manuals) when both UL/CSA and International standards actually designates that color as Violet.

I am working to do my very best at re-drawing all three motor configurations in the same style so that they will all be presented in the same way, and getting the tracer wire base converted to white, with the color tracer which is what they are.

I am working on the whole manual in my spare time, so it may be a while before I get it in a form to show anyone. You are clearly an authoritative source for Mark VII info, and with your permission, I will privately email you a preliminary copy for review, comments and recommendations for additional content, such as the 4P3T on-off-on toggle switch you are showing for them to replace the original OEM push button one.

Everett

4P2T THE CENTER OFF DOES NOT COUNT AS A THROW. DETENT, YES.